WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN: Speedy vs Pauk

[qgaliana]

I need to check a book but IIRC - Malta almost collapsed in 1942 due to starvation. The ability to pummel it and close it down is historical. The British were literally killing themselves running convoys and extra a/c into the island.
 
Not sure why the Hurri is such easy prey - too slow for the WITP model? Maybe the Italian ftr guns are overrated in the mod?
 
DAK irl rolled the Brits all the way to Alamein as well. Given the weird way that WITP pushes supplies forward by land you may find the axis tanks running out of gas in the same place. I think if the British player is aggressive with his navy like his historical counterpart, there won't be that much supply in NA for the axis troops.
 
I think the biggest trick will be getting the supply levels right. By 42 the Italian navy had shot it's load and could barely get the capital ships out of port for lack of fuel. There probably shouldn't be too much supply floating about either, even in Italy.
 
Anyways, I think the mod shows promise, and it should be a good theatre for it. A 1941 scenario might also be interesting - that's when the navies really went at each other.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi all,

I've been thinking on this scenario over the past couple of days and have come up with a couple of suggestions/thoughts.

This is a play test so I wll totally open as to what I have here.

I feel the pace of this is way too fast.

Within 10 days Malta is dead and 60% of the available Allied force in NA is shattered and the Axis will be in Tobruk within 2 weeks.

All I have left from Tobruk to Alexandria are 2 x Division and 2 x Bde all of which are between 50-66% ready.

The problems I see are thus:

1. As we all know the stock WITP model is a fairly all or nothing model.

As such land and air battles are generally over very quickly and the loser loses badly. This is not the right model for WITM. As such I feel the air model needs to be tweaked to reflect the combat conditions. I feel Nik can be invaluable here guys. He knows a lot more on this than me but I think we need to lower the available number of aircraft for BOTH sides to prevent uber air battles and prevent the uber smashing of Malta (within 2 days[8|]). With kloiwer numbers of planes operational then more realistic air battles will be seen and the easy smashing of any enemy base will not be possible. Nik - would changing the Durability levels help here?

When i finish with my conversion of the Guadalcanal scenario to the upcoming Nikmod 9.1, I plan to start working with this mod to see how it would work with the NM model. I can see from the AAR and from some quick playing of the mod how the pace can be accelerated. (i.e. many of the issues are the same as in WitP....for example, the slew of 6000 foot low altitude air attacks)

I have an idea on air serviceability.......something I've thought about using for Pacific NM but haven't had the time to test.

[sprior]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: fremen

Thanks for your support Ron. [:D]

Fremen;

You are one forgiving guy. [:D]

I think it is a great effort. It my require some deviation for historical positions/strengths for play balance. Perhaps some fortifications for the Allies or improved readiness at the start? Better CO's, etc etc

Perhaps the aircraft attributes could be tweaked a bit but the TO&E's left the same?

Perhaps expand the scale to 1 km and company/Bn level units? [;)]

Is that a Combined Arms teaser?

[Nikademus]

Hey Fremen,

I've taken advantage of an all-day Sci-Fi Channel "bad movie" marathon (Can't wait for Attack of the Gargoyles) and have mostly finished a NM conversion of your mod, including some fixes to OOB boo boos and the creation of GE and ITA land devices (So no more IJA infantry squads etc). I won't post it if you don't want me to since it's based off your mod but assuming it works, would you mind if i gave it anyone who wanted to help playtest it?

[Speedysteve]

Nice one mate.
 
Fremen -  wouldn't worry about the fatalistic views of Ron. I feel this mod is a cracking effort and still has life in it.

[kokubokan25]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Hey Fremen,

I've taken advantage of an all-day Sci-Fi Channel "bad movie" marathon (Can't wait for Attack of the Gargoyles) and have mostly finished a NM conversion of your mod, including some fixes to OOB boo boos and the creation of GE and ITA land devices (So no more IJA infantry squads etc). I won't post it if you don't want me to since it's based off your mod but assuming it works, would you mind if i gave it anyone who wanted to help playtest it?

As i said before when released the mod, everybody is free to modify and upgrade it. Actually mifune had (almost ready) the 1.2 upgrade and this patch contain the new and correct DEVICES, land, aerial and naval.

[pauk]

Hi to all...i will add my comments latter - still tired of yesterdays trip to Austria and Croatia - Macedonia soccer match....


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/09/42

Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 x 25
CR-25 x 1
Bf-109F-4 R2 Recon x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 79 : 1 damaged

Runway hits 5
at 23000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 T x 12
Ju-88A-4 x 45
Hs-126 B-2 x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 79 T: 1 damaged
Ju-88A-4: 2 damaged


Allied ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 19

at 21000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 84 x 5
IMAM Ro-37 x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 84: 5 damaged

Runway hits 5

6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 84 x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
SM 84: 1 damaged


Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Runway hits 1

at 25900 feet

He cant stop us and he knows that....

Day Air attack on 132th Ariete Tank Division, at 47,127


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 3
Wellington III x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

at 8000 feet
------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Indian Brigade, at 47,129

Japanese aircraft
Bf-109F-4 Trop x 10
Ju-87 D (Ger) x 13

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ju-87 D (Ger) bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Malta at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
Bf-109F-4 x 31

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
PT MTB-62
PT MTB-61
PT MTB-63
PT MTB-64
PT MTB-66, Shell hits 4

Ariete sings perfectly - enemy didn't suffer other casaulties than men/vechiles lost in retreat!

Ground combat at 47,127

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 5582 troops, 54 guns, 195 vehicles, Assault Value = 165

Defending force 7135 troops, 144 guns, 298 vehicles, Assault Value = 278

Japanese max assault: 292 - adjusted assault: 204

Allied max defense: 192 - adjusted defense: 34

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
312 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 5


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Another costly victory by our panzers!

Ground combat at Msus

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 14907 troops, 182 guns, 559 vehicles, Assault Value = 499

Defending force 6741 troops, 101 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 183

Japanese max assault: 950 - adjusted assault: 126

Allied max defense: 109 - adjusted defense: 18

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
469 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
Vehicles lost 6

Allied ground losses:
124 casualties reported
Guns lost 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

[pauk]

Speedy, these are the units i currently have in North Africa and reinforcements:

[pauk]

ok, here are the status of my assault units in North Africa.... some of them are in the good shape but Italian inf units are in trouble...

[AmiralLaurent]

IMOO both sides should at start have low supplies and be under TOE, with Axis units being in a worst shape than Allied.

Benghazi, Darce and Msus should be in Allied hands, but more or less wrecked.

There should be an Axis base, or dot, in Halfaya/Sullum/Bardia between Tobruk and Sidi Barrani that should held for some weeks and effectifely disrupt Allied supply moves.

Most Axis units should be prepared for El Aleigha, where there should be forts ready... while Allied units should be prepared for various targets, but with a far lower preparation state.

My last advice for Fremen and co would be to work on the mod step by step. I think the first mod should cover the period from 1st January 1942 to 8 November 1942. Once it will be OK and playable, you/we may add a second part covering the period to 8 September 1943. I think that the switchover of Italy is impossible to simulate in WITP, so the scenario should stop when it happens.

[Speedysteve]

Hi all,

Just a further update for you all.

Pauk and I are staging a Naval battle 120 miles south of Crete. Pauk is sending Doria and Vittorio Veneto, 2 x CA, 1 x CL + 7 x DD.

I am sending an equivalent force under Palliser - Queen Elizabeth class x 2, 3 x CL + 7 x DD.

My force may not make it until 2 days time.

Here's my entire Infrantry/Armour arsenal. In total I have:

2 x British ARM Div (at 50% at game start)
3 x Bde (at 50-75% at game start)
3 x Div (50-85% at game start).

[DuckofTindalos]

Another thing: Fremen should change the "IJA", "IJN", etc. in the squad titles. They're just text blocks, and they take away from the immersion...

[Andy Mac]

Those allied forces feel 'light' for early 42

5th Indian Div (Cyprs Garrison)
50th Northumbrian Div (Syria)
2nd NZ Div (Delta)
9th Aus Div (Delta)
70th Div (Tobruk Garrison)
10th Armoured Div (Palestine)
Polish Carpathian Bde (Tobruk)
22nd Guards Bde (Delta)

Andy

[Nikademus]

I've sent a beta to you Speedy. Let me know if you don't receive it.

[kokubokan25]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Another thing: Fremen should change the "IJA", "IJN", etc. in the squad titles. They're just text blocks, and they take away from the immersion...

The Device file is now correct (thanks to mifune), no more IJA squads and armament.
I hope the 1.2 patch will be this week.

[Feinder]

Very cool scenario guys.  Thanks for the play-test.
 
-F-

[Feinder]

Oh, and without seeing the entire OB, how many Divs do you have available?  Might it be a good idea to divide up the units into their respective Bde/Rgt/Btn (or whavever would be appropriate maneuver elements)?
 
-F-

[Capt. Harlock]

I need to check a book but IIRC - Malta almost collapsed in 1942 due to starvation. The ability to pummel it and close it down is historical. The British were literally killing themselves running convoys and extra a/c into the island.

Pummel it, yes, but close it down? That, I wonder about. True, the Brits suffered serious losses with their convoys, but the Italians lost many ships as well trying to re-supply the Axis forces in North Africa. Malta actually comprises more than one island, and IIRC there was more than one airfield. Perhaps that's what is needed to make the Axis job tougher.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

I need to check a book but IIRC - Malta almost collapsed in 1942 due to starvation. The ability to pummel it and close it down is historical. The British were literally killing themselves running convoys and extra a/c into the island.

Pummel it, yes, but close it down? That, I wonder about. True, the Brits suffered serious losses with their convoys, but the Italians lost many ships as well trying to re-supply the Axis forces in North Africa. Malta actually comprises more than one island, and IIRC there was more than one airfield. Perhaps that's what is needed to make the Axis job tougher.

From what i've read, Malta was open to invasion more than once, and the invasion probably would have succeeded.

What the game means by "closing down an airfield" probably means putting enough holes in it so that planes couldn't take off on offensive missions. Looking at some of the pics, this likely would have happened more than once during the air seige, although i am not sure it ever happened to ALL the airfields at once. Maybe i need to find those books again and re-read them...

There WERE more than (one air fields), but that is true about almost any hex in WITP as well (i.e. Rabaul, Pt. Moresby, Oahu).

[anarchyintheuk]

There were at least three airfields on Malta (Luqa, Halfar and one or two dirt strips). Don't think the Axis ever shut down one airfield, much less all of them.

Now, shooting all the airfield's aircraft down is another matter.

Edited for no apparent reason.