The Ultimate "Bad Guys"?

[Alby]

Buy Gebirgsjaegers....they are elite classed.
(formation wise)
[;)]

[vahauser]

Alby,

This isn't a question of "workarounds". 

This is a question of deliberately politicizing and perpetuating the "SS myth".  By reorganzing the OOB into generic non-elite and elite categories, the panzers and panzergrenadiers (which are the most commonly used, and thus most important, formations) will be more historically and accurately represented across the board.  Peripheral formations (uncommonly used, and hence not as important) such as fallschirmjagers and gebirgsjagers and ski troops, etc., can remain as they are.

The important thing is to fairly and historically represent ALL elite German mobile formations, not just the SS.  Treating the SS as special (while ignoring all the other non-SS elite German mobile formations) is shameful and despicable, in my opinion, and does no good, only harm, to the image of SPWAW.

And the solution is so simple. Just change all occurances of "SS" in the OOB to "Elite". Voila.

[KG Erwin]

Victor, there's no point in making an issue out of this. Listen, back when I worked on the "official" OOB teams, this was discussed ad nauseaum. I'm sorry that you don't like the designations, but that's what we decided on.

If you don't like it, then you have the ability to edit your personal OOBs any way you see fit. You and your PBEM opponents can simply agree to use your version, and it becomes a non-issue.

Let me tell you right now, I personally don't agree with changing the names just for the sake of being politically correct. That's not gonna happen. Let it go.

Now maybe you understand why I prefer talking about my beloved Marines. They don't have much "baggage" attached to their reputation, despite the fact that a few units didn't take prisoners and that collecting souvenirs from enemy dead (skulls, gold teeth etc) did happen. We could open up a huge can of worms about all of it, but it would lead to nowhere.

If you believe as I do that ALL war is an atrocity, or at best a necessary evil, then we can leave this issue to rest.

[vahauser]

Glenn,
 
But that still doesn't solve the problem.  I come back to the original question:  What about Grossdeutschland, what about Panzer Lehr? What about all the other non-SS elite formations.  Why must THEY be forced to use the SS formations?  THAT is the problem.  And I claim that there are more non-SS elite formations than SS "elite" formations.  So we have a situation where the majority is being forced to conform to a shameful and despicable minority.  THAT is the problem.
 
--V

[KG Erwin]

Victor, all we are talking about is a simple formation code. 0 means standard, and 10 gives a +10 average exp/morale rating. You can rail all you want, but it's not gonna change. No one but you has made an issue of this.

[vahauser]

Glenn,
 
Indeed.  You are correct.  The SS lovers have had their way and history be damned.  Nothing I say here will make any difference.  I realize that.  But that doesn't mean that I will be silent on an issue that I believe in my heart to be wrong, historically and morally and politically.  To me, SPWAW has chosen irresponsibly.  It is shameful.  And now I've spoken my mind and there it is.  Oh well.  Another moon howled at for nothing.
 
--V

[vahauser]

Just for comparison sake, here is a list of divisions.

I would take the list on the right anytime and anywhere. I think the list on the right is superior to the list on the left. And yet the list on the left is "elite" and the list on the right is not. What is wrong with this picture?

[vahauser]

So, what you have here is perhaps a half dozen SS divisions that are worthy of the "elite" designation out of 38 SS divisions.  That is 15%.  This means that 85% of all SS divisions get an "elite" designation that they don't deserve.
 
And it also means that all of the truly elite Wehrmacht divisions get nothing.  It turns my stomach.

[Goblin]

8 months and you wake this back up?!? [&:] [8|]

[vahauser]

Goblin,
 
Somebody posted in another thread how they only play the SS as the Germans because they are so elite. 
 
That, plus all this gobbledegook regarding the "moral high ground" and SPWAW motivated me to examine some old threads.

[KG Erwin]

Sometimes it's fun to be eee-ville.

BTW, here's a 13-minute medley of various WWII-era German songs/marches: http://www.sendspace.com/file/5053fu