WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN: Speedy vs Pauk

[Nikademus]

Soon Barney will be heard on all radio stations in Alexandria....

[DuckofTindalos]

RUN AWAY!!!

[Dili]

Strange that result Littorios were one of the battleships with better side armour impenetrable at close range. Also tactically avoiding war at night was something that both sides wanted.

  DAK irl rolled the Brits all the way to Alamein as well. Given the weird way that WITP pushes supplies forward by land you may find the axis tanks running out of gas in the same place. I think if the British player is aggressive with his navy like his historical counterpart, there won't be that much supply in NA for the axis troops.

I think the biggest trick will be getting the supply levels right. By 42 the Italian navy had shot it's load and could barely get the capital ships out of port for lack of fuel. There probably shouldn't be too much supply floating about either, even in Italy.

Not true at all. British were only agressive when they werent detected. Other than that both navies were vere timid and prudent. Despite being possible there was never a fight like the USA Vs Japanese


Mid June 1942
http://www.regiamarina.net/battles/mid-june/midjune_us.htm

Fuel problem hit only in last half part of 1942 . Later arrives the French fuel from Toulon in 43 .
http://www.regiamarina.net/others/fuel/fuel_us.htm

Transport:
This notwithstanding, it is fair to recall that merchant ships in wartime performed their tasks in exemplary fashion, delivering nearly all their war cargoes to their proper destination: out of 4,199,375 tons of goods embarked, only 449,225 tons failed to reach their destination, i.e. about 10.5%.

The number of embarked soldiers was 1,266,172, and 23,443 were lost at sea, i.e. 2%: many in absolute terms, of course, but few in relation to the efforts expended.
http://www.regiamarina.net/merchant/intro_us.htm

[Speedysteve]

Hi all,

Well that was an interesting day in the Med.

From looking at the Surface Combat the Italian performance was VERY POOR. They hardly got off a shot and when they did they missed. The British performance was the opposite. Every ship fired and fired well.

Queen Elizabeth took on Littorio landing 6 x 15" shells.

Warspite took on Andrea Doria also landing 6 x 15" shells. 1 of which blew off a 12" turret.

It's doubtful which of the enemy ships will survive. 3 x DD sank outright (1 due to magazine explosion).

My damage was relatively light (screenshot attached).

The RN rules the seas once more[:)]

------------------

Other good news was a heavy air raid on Brenghazi by Allied LBA which destroyed 43 Axis planes on the ground:

Day Air attack on Benghazi , at 45,128

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 83
Liberator II x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Bf-109F-4 Trop: 7 destroyed
MC-200: 8 destroyed
Hs-126 B-2: 5 destroyed
Ju-87 B (Ger): 3 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
365 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 41

----------------------

The Allied retreat on the ground continues with Axis units approaching Tobruk. I still predict Pauk will have overrun Egypt within 2 months and there is little I can do about it with few ground units. The only hope is the RN and Allied Bombers.

[qgaliana]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Not true at all. British were only agressive when they werent detected. Other than that both navies were vere timid and prudent. Despite being possible there was never a fight like the USA Vs Japanese

We'll just have to disagree on this point. While both navies broke off several engagements that could have been major I would still call the British operations aggressive, very much so. They often moved shipping in areas at high risk of air attack or engagement of surface forces when it was felt necessary: resupplying Malta, operations in Greece/Crete, intercepting convoys to Lybia. Never mind Taranto or shelling Genoa.

My point is even if the mod could get everything right, the British player needs to put in the effort and be willing to pay the same price to strangle North Africa. It isn't just going to happen.

[Dili]

I just cheked BB armour of Littorios Vs QE´s or Duilio and the values have nothing to do with real world.And 80mm  side belt for Duilio!

[Dili]

Never mind Taranto or shelling Genoa.

Major operations like i said only when they were not detected. When there was a chance of big units fighting all sides were very prudent. For small units there were risky missions for both sides.

[pauk]

well, Regia Marina is useless, i need to use to it....I have other toys to play with it (until the devs of this very interesting and fun to play mod take it from me[:(][;)])

I had a great and cuning plan (all my plans are great and cuning in fact): As you recall German paratroopers were stationated at Crete and i thought i can conduct airdrop on Cyprus or Palestine - but these German paras are just regular inf in this mod (which is, i'm sure only good solution)...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/12/42


I refuse to count my Navy losses - i wouldn't do such thing as engagement with mediocre Englander's navy if this is not a playtest... Look, i think that Englander will shoot Unison commander[:'(]

Sub attack at 45,120

Japanese Ships
CA Gorizia, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Unison


Bah, Me-109 should do better there! At least i'm sure that Englander wont be back for another portion. How many ac were destroyed this turn Speedy (forgot to check air losses)?
Day Air attack on Benghazi , at 45,128

Japanese aircraft
MC-200 x 6
Bf-109F-4 Trop x 31

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 76
Liberator II x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
MC-200: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Bf-109F-4 Trop: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged
Hs-126 B-2: 1 destroyed
Ju-87 B (Ger): 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 2 destroyed, 54 damaged
Liberator II: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
152 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 16

at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 x 27
CR-25 x 6
MC-200 x 17
Re-2001 x 13
BR 20 M x 36
Ju-88A-4 x 32
Bf-109F-4 R2 Recon x 5

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 22

23000 feet
26000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Malta , at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
SM 79 T x 13
Ju-88A-4 x 32
Hs-126 B-2 x 5

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Runway hits 10

at 26900 feet

Ariete will attack Derna base - i suspect that Englander will try to hold me at Gazala but he cant do it - i always have few units prepared for the first next target

Day Air attack on 132th Ariete Tank Division, at 48,127


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 9
Wellington III x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
78 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 1

8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 21th Panzer Tank Division, at 49,128


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 6
Hudson I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 15th Panzer Tank Division, at 49,128


Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 3
Hudson I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 3 damaged
Hudson I: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

8000 feet

Incredible - can't sink those b*ds!

Day Air attack on TF, near Malta at 35,120

Japanese aircraft
Bf-109F-4 x 32

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
PT MTB-64, Shell hits 4
PT MTB-66
PT MTB-63


I can see here complaints about how poor Italians are modeled. Here is a counter argument. Italian Armoured division barely defeated RAAF air base force (and the Brits surrendered) in the base with no forts!


Ground combat at Derna

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5072 troops, 48 guns, 186 vehicles, Assault Value = 144

Defending force 3411 troops, 12 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 40

Japanese max assault: 64 - adjusted assault: 59

Allied max defense: 44 - adjusted defense: 25

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Derna base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
3479 casualties reported
Guns lost 7
Vehicles lost 1

Lets wait for some reinforcements - strong enemy garnison at Gazala. In a week i will have more than enough troops to march into Alexandria (this city will be renamed into Paukandria). Of course this have nothing with unbalanced scenario - Englander just sucks[;)]


Ground combat at Gazala

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5396 troops, 35 guns, 234 vehicles, Assault Value = 450

Defending force 15450 troops, 228 guns, 305 vehicles, Assault Value = 400

[Speedysteve]

I lost 13 x Wellie today against your 16 planes Pauk.

[pauk]

thanks, btw you have nice plan with Brit Navy - lets see what will happen!

[pauk]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/14/42

here you can see Englanders plan - a "bold" naval strike behind frontlines.... Why i'm saying "bold"... because Englander knows that he doesnt be afraid of Italian Navy and that I don't have torpedo bomber... very brave, Speedy, very brave... just to be sure, he sent navy under the cover of bad weather....phew![;)][:D]

Anyway, i'm going to Speedy! Rommel rules!


Night Time Surface Combat, near Benghazi at 45,128

Japanese Ships
BB Giulio Cesare, Shell hits 1
CA Trento, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Francesco Crispi, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maestrale, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Fuciliere, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Valiant, Shell hits 1
BB Malaya, Shell hits 1
CL Ajax
CL Leander
DD Eclipse
DD Griffin, Shell hits 1
DD Hero
DD Inconstant, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Isis
DD Raider
DD Tartar

This TF was ordered to leave Benghazi?????

Night Time Surface Combat, near Benghazi at 45,128

Japanese Ships
AK Cortelazzo, Shell hits 1
AK Col di Lana
AK Monte Piana
AK Monviso, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Delia, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
AK Tergestea, Shell hits 1
AK Nita
AK Gino Allegri
AK Carlo del Greco
AK Alcamo
AK Spoleta, Shell hits 1
AK Ines Corrado, Shell hits 1
AK Caterina Costa
AK Rossandra, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Valiant
BB Malaya
CL Ajax
CL Leander
DD Eclipse
DD Griffin
DD Hero
DD Inconstant, on fire
DD Isis
DD Raider
DD Tartar

Cowardly Englander plays unfair here

TF 14 encounters mine field at Benghazi (45,128)

Japanese Ships
AK Nita, Mine hits 1, on fire


I relased my war dogs...

Day Air attack on TF at 48,124

Japanese aircraft
Z-1007 Bis x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Z-1007 Bis: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,126

Japanese aircraft
Z-1007 Bis x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Z-1007 Bis: 2 destroyed, 11 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Malaya
BB Valiant

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
2 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 48,124

Japanese aircraft
Z-1007 Bis x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Z-1007 Bis: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth
BB Warspite
CL Edinburgh

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
1 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet
2 x Z-1007 Bis bombing at 5000 feet

[Capt. Harlock]

Well, one should expect Speedy to use his strengths. (I'll bet he's unhappy about having expended his torpedoes before he encountered the cargo ships!)

But as for no torpedo bombers: true, there were no German ones in early 1942, but I would have thought there were Italian ones. Weren't the SM79's torpedo-capable?

[Nikademus]

Yes, but they didn't carry them at all times. (They could carry a pair but rarely ever did so...usually it was one.)

[Nikademus]

were you trying to offload a big supply dump at Benghazi Pauk?

[Swayin]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

Malta is also supposed to have huge AA defences.

Agreed - if ever there was a "flak nest," it was Malta.

[Capt. Harlock]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Yes, but they didn't carry them at all times. (They could carry a pair but rarely ever did so...usually it was one.)

The point being that Pauk has them if he's willing to use them. (And I personally would rather have SM 79's than Albacores -- longer range is a Good Thing.)

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

were you trying to offload a big supply dump at Benghazi Pauk?

part of supplies were unloaded and other part remained at ships as 'active reserve' (didn't want to create a big supply dump at Benghazi because of spoilage

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Yes, but they didn't carry them at all times. (They could carry a pair but rarely ever did so...usually it was one.)

The point being that Pauk has them if he's willing to use them. (And I personally would rather have SM 79's than Albacores -- longer range is a Good Thing.)

SM 79 have bomb load only, according to statistics... anyway i was only teasing Speedy[;)]

[Nikademus]

Fremen's ahead of me.....he has an SM-79 and a SM-79T for the torpedo dedicated airgroups.

[anarchyintheuk]

Thought Ju-88s were using torps earlier than '42, tho I can't seem to find a site that uses a date or specifically identifies a naval attack as a torpedo attack.