[:)]ORIGINAL: vahauser
264rifle,
Those are all excellent observations.
However, since the PzSf IVa only exists in the Encyclopedia (only two were built and the weapon never shows up in the actual game), and since only two PzSf V were ever built (both prototypes), then these two weapons could easily be deleted from the Czech OOB to make room for the 105mm K 18 field gun (over 1500 of which saw service).
There is no issue with "slots" there is room....there is even a couple slots in the actual German OOB.....I just need the unit stats.
Rgf, Targetting, size, speed, survive.....the weight yuou suggest seems a too high, most 105s in the game are around 108.....210-213 is more in line with the heavier guns...
As of today, the German OOB has no real counter-battery artillery (mainly because the ratings of the 170mm gun are messed up). And even if someday the 170mm gun gets historically correct ratings, the 105mm gun was far more numerous. I say that the German OOB needs a standard counter-battery gun way more than it needs two prototype self-propelled AT guns (only 4 of which were ever produced (2 each of the Pz SF IVa and Pz Sf V)).
The German OOB has no counter battery artillery??
The 210mm, 170mm, and 150mm are not counter battery capable????
[&:]
The 170mm stats have already been adjusted BTW...
you are not checking the list huh?
we are almost to 100 fixes, which calls for OOB patch soon....
[:)]
Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
The 105mm K 18 field gun IS a heavy gun. Please don't call it 105mm K 18 FH. It is NOT a field howitzer (FH), it is a field GUN (FG). The Germans considered it heavy artillery. I don't know what the crew was, but if the crew is 8 men, then the weight should be 210, and if the crew is 10 men, then the weight should be 212. It was capable of being towed by horses, so the weight should not be more than 212.
Accuracy 17 (68 divided by 4)
Range 224 (need to verify, range 21000 yards)
Rate of Fire 5
Crew 8-10 (need to verify)
Weight 210-212 (based on crew)
HE Kill 9
Warhead 6
HE Penetration 37
AP Penetration 148+ (at least 148 need to verify)
HEAT Penetration 105
Rarity 2
The 105mm K 18 field gun IS a heavy gun. Please don't call it 105mm K 18 FH. It is NOT a field howitzer (FH), it is a field GUN (FG). The Germans considered it heavy artillery. I don't know what the crew was, but if the crew is 8 men, then the weight should be 210, and if the crew is 10 men, then the weight should be 212. It was capable of being towed by horses, so the weight should not be more than 212.
Accuracy 17 (68 divided by 4)
Range 224 (need to verify, range 21000 yards)
Rate of Fire 5
Crew 8-10 (need to verify)
Weight 210-212 (based on crew)
HE Kill 9
Warhead 6
HE Penetration 37
AP Penetration 148+ (at least 148 need to verify)
HEAT Penetration 105
Rarity 2
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
Still not sure why you made the 170mm FG an accuracy 16 instead of 17. It has a range of 32000 yards. Nothing else in the game comes close to that. It deserves an accuracy at least equal to the American 155mm FG.
Still not sure why you made the 170mm FG an accuracy 16 instead of 17. It has a range of 32000 yards. Nothing else in the game comes close to that. It deserves an accuracy at least equal to the American 155mm FG.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
If you are going to leave the Pz Sf IVa and the Pz Sf V in the game (which I disagree with since only 2 prototypes of each were ever built), then you should make the Rarity at least a 4 (or whatever the maximum Rarity possible is), and not 2.
If you are going to leave the Pz Sf IVa and the Pz Sf V in the game (which I disagree with since only 2 prototypes of each were ever built), then you should make the Rarity at least a 4 (or whatever the maximum Rarity possible is), and not 2.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
I did make it 68...i said 64 by mistake..ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
Still not sure why you made the 170mm FG an accuracy 16 instead of 17. It has a range of 32000 yards. Nothing else in the game comes close to that. It deserves an accuracy at least equal to the American 155mm FG.
[:(]
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
there is no rarity 4ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
If you are going to leave the Pz Sf IVa and the Pz Sf V in the game (which I disagree with since only 2 prototypes of each were ever built), then you should make the Rarity at least a 4 (or whatever the maximum Rarity possible is), and not 2.
2 is the max.....
these units have always been in the game for designers......
there are units like this in every oob......UK's Black Prince, the German Maus, USA T19 105mm GMC, Anzac "Tortoise" unit, The Soviet IS 4,.....etc etc.......
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
The Germans called it a field kanone (FK). So if you are sticking with German terminology, then the 105mm K 18 should be called 105mm K 18 FK, and the 170mm K 18 should be called the 170mm K 18 FK.
And I think that Fire Control and Range Finder should remain the standard 2 and 1 for field artillery for both weapons.
Turns out that the 105mm K 18 FK did not have a HEAT round, so I don't think we need to worry about that.
Both the 105mm FK and the 170mm FK were issued AP rounds, but I don't know the standard ammo load for either weapon. My guess is that if you are going to give each weapon 40 HE rounds, then 4 AP rounds sounds like a reasonable guess.
The Germans called it a field kanone (FK). So if you are sticking with German terminology, then the 105mm K 18 should be called 105mm K 18 FK, and the 170mm K 18 should be called the 170mm K 18 FK.
And I think that Fire Control and Range Finder should remain the standard 2 and 1 for field artillery for both weapons.
Turns out that the 105mm K 18 FK did not have a HEAT round, so I don't think we need to worry about that.
Both the 105mm FK and the 170mm FK were issued AP rounds, but I don't know the standard ammo load for either weapon. My guess is that if you are going to give each weapon 40 HE rounds, then 4 AP rounds sounds like a reasonable guess.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
I thought Rarity 3 was the max. I would make the 105mm FK a Rarity 2 and the 170mm FK a Rarity 3.
I thought Rarity 3 was the max. I would make the 105mm FK a Rarity 2 and the 170mm FK a Rarity 3.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
The last number in the "weight" always equals number of crew....ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
The 105mm K 18 field gun IS a heavy gun. Please don't call it 105mm K 18 FH. It is NOT a field howitzer (FH), it is a field GUN (FG). The Germans considered it heavy artillery. I don't know what the crew was, but if the crew is 8 men, then the weight should be 210, and if the crew is 10 men, then the weight should be 212. It was capable of being towed by horses, so the weight should not be more than 212.
Accuracy 17 (68 divided by 4)
Range 224 (need to verify, range 21000 yards)
Rate of Fire 5
Crew 8-10 (need to verify)
Weight 210-212 (based on crew)
HE Kill 9
Warhead 6
HE Penetration 37
AP Penetration 148+ (at least 148 need to verify)
HEAT Penetration 105
Rarity 2
108=8 crewmen
210=10 crewman
etc etc....
AP penetration of 148???
[X(]
Thats higher than Pak 40 ATGs....and is double that of the LeFH18
where are you coming up with these numbers?
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
no, the '3' is used to ensure certain units only show up in particular formations and not show up in mutliple formations with units of same class..ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
I thought Rarity 3 was the max. I would make the 105mm FK a Rarity 2 and the 170mm FK a Rarity 3.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
Okay. Then in that case, either make both Rarity 2 (1500+ 105mm FK and ~350 170mm FK produced during the war), or make the 105mm Rarity 1 and the 170mm Rarity 2. Your call.
I have no idea what the armor-penetation tables looked like for the AP rounds for these two guns. I know that the AP values for the 170mm gun were enormous, and that the 105mm gun also had very good penetration with AP. But I don't have proving-ground numbers. The AP rounds were mainly used to destroy fortified positions, but were certainly capable of blowing up tanks too.
Okay. Then in that case, either make both Rarity 2 (1500+ 105mm FK and ~350 170mm FK produced during the war), or make the 105mm Rarity 1 and the 170mm Rarity 2. Your call.
I have no idea what the armor-penetation tables looked like for the AP rounds for these two guns. I know that the AP values for the 170mm gun were enormous, and that the 105mm gun also had very good penetration with AP. But I don't have proving-ground numbers. The AP rounds were mainly used to destroy fortified positions, but were certainly capable of blowing up tanks too.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
Here is my guess at AP penetration for the two guns based on looking at other weapons in the Encyclopedia.
105mm K 18
1 150
10 142
20 135
30 128
40 121
50 114
170mm K 18
1 180
10 176
20 173
30 170
40 167
50 164
Here is my guess at AP penetration for the two guns based on looking at other weapons in the Encyclopedia.
105mm K 18
1 150
10 142
20 135
30 128
40 121
50 114
170mm K 18
1 180
10 176
20 173
30 170
40 167
50 164
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
I think some howitzers and FGs are issued "heat" rounds and the game program converts it to AP somehow or another...i need to confirm this though......
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
I used the American 155mm gun for comparison purposes. The Americann 155mm gun is issued AP rounds and no HEAT rounds.
Standard ammo load for an American 155mm gun is 50 rounds HE and 10 rounds AP. So giving the German guns 40 HE and either 4 or 6 AP looks fine.
I used the American 155mm gun for comparison purposes. The Americann 155mm gun is issued AP rounds and no HEAT rounds.
Standard ammo load for an American 155mm gun is 50 rounds HE and 10 rounds AP. So giving the German guns 40 HE and either 4 or 6 AP looks fine.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
The US 155mm FG Off board unit has HEAT ammo issued, not AP ammo, but has AP pen stats, not HEAT stats, and the Onboard unit has AP rounds issued... so before I proceed further I need to confirm some things on how the program handles this.ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
I used the American 155mm gun for comparison purposes. The Americann 155mm gun is issued AP rounds and no HEAT rounds.
Standard ammo load for an American 155mm gun is 50 rounds HE and 10 rounds AP. So giving the German guns 40 HE and either 4 or 6 AP looks fine.
the oob editor automatically does the HE ammo loadouts.
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
You are on the leader. . .
You are on the leader. . .
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
After looking at other artillery crews in the game, I would give the 105mm gun a crew of 8 and weight of 209. I would give the 170mm gun a crew of 10 and a weight of 213 (it could not be horse-towed, so it must have a weight greater than 212).
After looking at other artillery crews in the game, I would give the 105mm gun a crew of 8 and weight of 209. I would give the 170mm gun a crew of 10 and a weight of 213 (it could not be horse-towed, so it must have a weight greater than 212).
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
on the leader???
I suspect maybe even the 155 USA FG may be in error looking at these ammo loadouts as far as Heat and AP between the offboard and onboard units.
but then again, it may be correct and the CODE handles things differently.
I will hold off for now until I get some confirmations...
[:)]
I suspect maybe even the 155 USA FG may be in error looking at these ammo loadouts as far as Heat and AP between the offboard and onboard units.
but then again, it may be correct and the CODE handles things differently.
I will hold off for now until I get some confirmations...
[:)]
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
Alby,
Does the game automatically calculate game ranges when you enter a gun range in yards?
The 105mm gun has a range of 21000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
The 170mm gun has a range of 32000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
[P.S. It's a quote from Star Wars, "I am on the leader."]
Does the game automatically calculate game ranges when you enter a gun range in yards?
The 105mm gun has a range of 21000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
The 170mm gun has a range of 32000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
[P.S. It's a quote from Star Wars, "I am on the leader."]
RE: Enhanced DV Artillery OOB Issues
I am actually unsure exactly how the game handles/calculates ranges....ORIGINAL: vahauser
Alby,
Does the game automatically calculate game ranges when you enter a gun range in yards?
The 105mm gun has a range of 21000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
The 170mm gun has a range of 32000 yards. Does the game automatically convert that into SPWAW range?
I do know there is a max range you can enter....229 IIRC.
Flashfyre is the expert on this type stuff, he is out of town, so until he gets back, I am on hold...
There are artillery units that have HEAT penetration stats, but no HEAT ammo issued...
so again, I am on hold for now...