Rules Clarification List

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: coregames

I have never run Spain as the Allies. We were thinking about aligning them with the CW, but to allow them to take mostly land actions, we are going to align with the Free French.

If France establishes Spain as their new home country, does that make the Spanish units Free French while their country is a major power home country?

If aligning Spain to France, you'll have to roll for spain in the "Other" row when France falls, for Vichy territory allocation, giving you slim chances of keeping it Free France. If aligning Spain to Free France, there is no problem. Normaly this is what should occur, given that France should have fallen before Spain gets to be attacked.
Next, if it goes Free France and that you select it as the new Free French Home Country, Spanish units will still be Minor Country Spanish units controlled by Free France. Only Free French units built by Free France will be Free French units.

[Mziln]

The only way the Allies can align Spain is if the Axis invades it. (I've checked this 3 times there is no mention of Spain under 19.8 Allied minor countries)

Why would the Axis player invade Spain when…

Spain

While Paris is Axis controlled, a neutral Spain must supply Germany with 1 resource a turn.



Why would the Axis player invade Spain when they could align it?

Spain

An Axis major power can declare that Spain is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if Spain is neutral and a unit from that Axis major power occupies Gibraltar. Once aligned, Gibraltar becomes part of the Spanish home country.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

The only way the Allies can align Spain is if the Axis invades it.

Why would the Axis player invade Spain when…

Spain

While Paris is Axis controlled, a neutral Spain must supply Germany with 1 resource a turn.

Why would the Axis player invade Spain when they could align it?

Spain

An Axis major power can declare that Spain is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if Spain is neutral and a unit from that Axis major power occupies Gibraltar. Once aligned, Gibraltar becomes part of the Spanish home country.

The Axis would declare war on Spain if they wanted Gibralter, and decided that their best chance at it would be through Spain.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: coregames

I have never run Spain as the Allies. We were thinking about aligning them with the CW, but to allow them to take mostly land actions, we are going to align with the Free French.

If France establishes Spain as their new home country, does that make the Spanish units Free French while their country is a major power home country?

Please, show me in your statement where the Allies decided that the Axis were invading Spain for Gibralter.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

If aligning Spain to France, you'll have to roll for spain in the "Other" row when France falls, for Vichy territory allocation, giving you slim chances of keeping it Free France. If aligning Spain to Free France, there is no problem. Normaly this is what should occur, given that France should have fallen before Spain gets to be attacked.
Next, if it goes Free France and that you select it as the new Free French Home Country, Spanish units will still be Minor Country Spanish units controlled by Free France. Only Free French units built by Free France will be Free French units.

My question was more hypothetical, since in our game, Free France is based in the Belgian Congo and can't move their government now. Granted, if the Axis DoW's Spain first, and they align with an unconquered France, and only then does the Axis establish Vichy, Spain would have to be rolled for. If France is Vichied or conquered first, Spain would not have to roll, since all subsequent territorial gains go to the Free French.

My question was directed to the status of Spanish troops if France moves their home country to Spain; do they get to cooperate with the U.S., as French troops? Or are they still minor country troops, even though their country is now a major power home country?

[Mziln]

18.1 Who can co-operate

3.  Units from a minor country (Spain) co-operate with units from its controlling major power (France, Free France, or Vichy) or minor country.
7.  Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.
8.  US and (non-Vichy) French units co-operate once the USA is at war with Germany and Italy
10. Vichy French units do not co-operate with any major power.

Being a French home country doesn't make Spain french.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Please, show me in your statement where the Allies decided that the Axis were invading Spain for Gibralter.

Gibralter is the only reason the Axis would attack Spain. I guess I assumed that was implied, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. We know they are going to attack Spain, because the corridor of Metropolitan France north of Bayonne (minus two hexes, Bayonne and the one north of it) is packed full of Axis troops (10 corps at least). They tried to conquer France outright, to skip the extra US entry hit and to prevent the French from cooperating with the CW. We held out in Toulouse with some CW help, forcing the Vichy. Now they have to collapse Vichy just to get more than one hex on Bayonne, and their job is that much harder.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Being a French home country doesn't make Spain french.

In this case, Spain would not be a French home country, it would be the French home country, and thus the home country of a major power. Might that affect things?

[Mziln]

18.1 Who can co-operate 

1.   Units from the same major power co-operate with each other (even if they are from different countries - e.g. Australian and Indian units).
2.   Units from the same minor country co-operate with each other.
3.   Units from a minor country (Spain) co-operate with units from its controlling major power (France, Free France, or Vichy) or minor country.
4.   Units from a major power don’t co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.
5.   Units from one minor country don’t co-operate with units from another minor country, even if both are aligned with the same major power.
6.   US and Commonwealth units co-operate provided neither is neutral.
7.   Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.
8.   US and (non-Vichy) French units co-operate once the USA is at war with Germany and Italy.
9.   German and Italian units co-operate if neither is neutral.
10. Vichy French units do not co-operate with any major power.
11. Units controlled by a neutral major power don’t co-operate with units from, or controlled by, another major power.
12. Units from a liberated major power co-operate with units from the major power that liberated it.
13. Chinese nationalist and communist units don’t co-operate.
14. Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.

No other units co-operate. As an exception to the above, units of a liberated major power never co-operate with units of a major power that refused to return territory on liberation (see 13.7.5).

AfA option 10: The Italian AOI territorial can co-operate with all other Italian territorials (see 22.4.5).


Being THE French home country doesn't make Spain french.

[paulderynck]

Where in RAW does it say you can voluntarily move your home country?

[Froonp]

My question was directed to the status of Spanish troops if France moves their home country to Spain; do they get to cooperate with the U.S., as French troops? Or are they still minor country troops, even though their country is now a major power home country?

They are Minor Country units aligned to a major power so they do not cooperate with other major Powers.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Where in RAW does it say you can voluntarily move your home country?

You can't.
You can only when the home country is conquered.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Where in RAW does it say you can voluntarily move your home country?

I don't think I implied that you can move your home country at any time; this was all in the context of conquest and Vichy.

13.7.1
Incomplete conquest

Merely conquering a major power or minor country doesn’t mean it is out of the game. That only happens when it is completely conquered (see below). Until then, it fights on with its remaining units.

and later in the same rule..

Now choose a new home country for the units of the conquered home country... Other conquered major power home countries (and Commonwealth if you want), can pick any aligned minor home country.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
They are Minor Country units aligned to a major power so they do not cooperate with other major Powers.

That is the way I interpret the rules as well, but I thought it was interesting from a devil's advocate point of view.

[c92nichj]

Can you Air transport an out of supply unit?

Cannot see anything that prevents it and I want to geta unit out of harms way.

[Mziln]

2.4.3 Out of supply

Land units

A land unit that is out of supply:
ï       can’t attack;
ï       must be turned face-down if you move it (even by naval transport or air transport);
ï       defends with 1 combat factor if it is a face-down division (see 22.4.1) or non-white print unit, 3 if it is a face-down white print unit (face-up units defend with their normal strength); and
ï       option 13: can’t provide HQ support (see 11.16.3).

Out of supply land units still have their normal movement allowance and still exert a ZOC.

Aircraft units

Aircraft units that are out of supply can only fly rebase missions.

[c92nichj]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

2.4.3 Out of supply

Land units

A land unit that is out of supply:
ï       can’t attack;
ï       must be turned face-down if you move it (even by naval transport or air transport);
ï       defends with 1 combat factor if it is a face-down division (see 22.4.1) or non-white print unit, 3 if it is a face-down white print unit (face-up units defend with their normal strength); and
ï       option 13: can’t provide HQ support (see 11.16.3).

Out of supply land units still have their normal movement allowance and still exert a ZOC.

Aircraft units

Aircraft units that are out of supply can only fly rebase missions.

The ATR is on supply only the land unit that is OOS. Unit cannot be turned facedown as it allready is though

[Froonp]

If land unit is out of supply, it can be transported as Mzlin pointed out, but if it is also face-down it is stuck where it is.
Being face-down and out of supply is nearly hopelessness in WiF [:D]

[c92nichj]

But it doesnt say in the ATR section that the unit has to be faceup.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

But it doesnt say in the ATR section that the unit has to be faceup.

11.12 does not say it, but the 10.2 rule says that :
**********************************
Moving a land unit during the land movement (see 11.11), air transport (see 11.12), debarkation (see 11.13), invasion (see 11.14) or paradrop (see 11.15) step counts as a land move.
**********************************

11.11 add that "Only face-up land units can make a land move".
Thus face-down land units cannot be picked by an ATR to be transported somewhere else.