Artillery too resistant?

[Ironclad]

The AI artillery, when inspired by a general to hold, does seem amazingly resistant when facing front and rear attacks whilst inflicting heavy to massive losses. Cannister may have been deadly to frontal (or front flank) attacks but not for the rear.

[Erik Rutins]

Within 20 minute turns though, a certain amount of mobility can be assumed. That's why there are significant penalties to firing to flank and rear but it's not quite reducing the fire to zero. You can assume that some flank guns turn to face the threat, but the whole group can't be brought to bear.

Beyond that, could you post a save or screenshot of the situation?

[Ironclad]

Unfortunately I haven't got a save or screen shot for it but will do so if I come across a repeat example.

[Walloc]

Well,

My personal opinion is that artillery should be reduced some what more to rear and flanks than now. I have several times surrounded an art unit so it had 6 units around it totally surronding it. The result was that it fired 500+ casulties in front and 400 in sides and back when i fired on it, making all 6 surronding brigades run screaming.

I must say i just dont bother really with art units now, other than screening it with units in skirmish. That works perfectly.

While i understand its a 20 mins turns and thing can happen within a hex in that time the above example is well some what funny.

A problem IMHO if going to discuss tactics. An art battalion of the size i assume an art unit in FoF represents has quiet a large Caisson park. No way u can start shooting through those at close range. So even if u can turn a few guns it isnt sure u can get any shoots of any how. Ofc if totally surrounded well they gota be some where so less u assuming they could circle the caissons, and i never heard of an example of that, at leased half of the firing arc of an art unit should be blocked by own units, aka caissons.

Well HW is an abstraction to a degree. Making a discussion of firing arc an abstraction, but it might be a thing to think about imposing a higher degree of penalty. Firing out side the primary arc. I've been looking over a few Action report of the above example. i do see there is a nice penalty to its rear, but it gets more than offsetted by the high firevalue in close making for these high casulties even to its rear.


A issue i see as having higher prioverty for changes is that even if a art unit panic's, i assume this mean they run from their pieces, they still do full damage. I had a cav unit attack an art unit to its rear that paniced and still did 1700 men damage.
I thot ok lets say they got a cannister round off as they ran. So I attacked with a new Cav unit. Again 1200 casulties. Dang ppl can be dangerous in melee while they running away from cavalry. Almost wish they had stayed at their guns. [:D]
That should be IMO changed asap.

Again more so than fire attacks i think art should be penalized to attack to its rear and possibly sides. An attack from behind can only be assumed to come through the park effectivly removing an chances of firing to stop it. In such cases art would limber up and leave before ever comming in that situasion. Less ofc they never saw it comming and then they screwed any how.

Since the game there already are excellent rules about not being able to attack an art unit if supported by inf. So if u have an example of a art being attacked it must mean its unsupported by Inf. Historicly in those cases art limbered up and moved if threatened.
If allowed to be attacked in such a case IMO i think art especially to sides and rear shouldnt really do any damage. It got it self into a bad situasion and IMO should reap the reward....

Overall though u do have possibilties of dealing with art. Units in skirmish are very well protected and if u have a sharpshooter unit too booth. U can easily make short process of art units.
I once saw Berdan sharpshooters with 2 times sharpshooter ability and the sharpshooter tech upgrade with its spencer rifles do 300 casulties and 32, yes 32 in moral damage. That makes batteries run fast [;)]
So i dont see it as a huge problem, but find some of the situasions amusing.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Walloc
My personal opinion is that artillery should be reduced some what more to rear and flanks than now. I have several times surrounded an art unit so it had 6 units around it totally surronding it. The result was that it fired 500+ casulties in front and 400 in sides and back when i fired on it, making all 6 surronding brigades run screaming.

Actually, I have to apologize. I forgot that we did make an adjustment to this, but that is in the next update. I was basing my comments on that thinking it was already in the public beta. The flank/rear modifiers are more significant now and I expect this update will get out to you all very soon.

A issue i see as having higher prioverty for changes is that even if a art unit panic's, i assume this mean they run from their pieces, they still do full damage. I had a cav unit attack an art unit to its rear that paniced and still did 1700 men damage.
I thot ok lets say they got a cannister round off as they ran. So I attacked with a new Cav unit. Again 1200 casulties. Dang ppl can be dangerous in melee while they running away from cavalry. Almost wish they had stayed at their guns. [:D]
That should be IMO changed asap.

Hm, good point - I think the issue is that fire is resolved before panic is applied, but those are very high casualties. I believe the new changes will prevent that, but we'll have to see.

Regards,

- Erik

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Actually, I have to apologize. I forgot that we did make an adjustment to this, but that is in the next update. I was basing my comments on that thinking it was already in the public beta. The flank/rear modifiers are more significant now and I expect this update will get out to you all very soon.

Sounds good. Apology accepted and u are forgiven. [&o]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hm, good point - I think the issue is that fire is resolved before panic is applied, but those are very high casualties. I believe the new changes will prevent that, but we'll have to see.

I could be wrong, but i think it wasnt resolved as a fire attack, but as melee. That said, apart from freak occurances.
Especially in panic'ing art vs Cav. I know where i would put my money and i would be inclined to think the bookmaker had fixed the game if i saw a 1700 vs 50 and 1200 vs 20 casulties in favor of the art unit in that situasion. [:)]
Assuming it was resolved as melee maybe the routine should be tweeked. It might already have been, if fire attacks have.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[christof139]

IMHO Arty. is too strong and the manpower strength too high. In the game now, i can usually get only 1 Art. Bde. per Army, and maybe one Siege Arty. Bde. per Army, and that is it. So, in my wee little mind, I consture the Arty. Attribute that Brigades can purchase as a seperate Arty. Battery attached to a particular Bde. The Art. Beds. themselves I look at as the reserve Arty. of an Army. This is the only way I can rationalize the game as it now stands concerning the 'Red Legged Infantry', the Arty.

As I just stated but will reiterate, the maximum manpower size of the present game's Arty. Bdes. I wold like to see reduced, and perhaps reduce their effectiveness a bit but maybe not. Reducing Arty. Bdes. to a maximum of 2,000 men might help, but even that is unrealistic and unhistorical.

Also, when the Art. bdes. have no cannon, they still appear in Quick Battles and i think HW's, and I would like to see them not appear if they don't have cannon. Additionally, when they don't have cannon they appear as red-coated Brits in Quick battles, and I dislike that greatly.

Chris