OT: Choices - Sea Of Thunder or Black Shoe Carrier Admiral?

[tsimmonds]

A strike from Rabaul was always the danger. This surely was clearly recognized from the earliest stages of planning the operation. It did not really become terribly more dangerous with 78 fighters than it was with 99. And Rabaul's strike aircraft had suffered equally heavy losses during their attacks on Turner earlier that day. Those results ought to have been encouraging.

Fletcher's desire to protect the CVs was understandable and commendable. But if they were so much more important than the landings, should they even have been risked at all? And if the landings were worth covering during the first two days, surely they were important enough to cover until they were completed.

Once again, Ghormley's fault for a bad plan. But had Fletcher covered the landings more aggressively than he did (which he might have done and kept within the bounds of his seemingly vague orders for the operation), things could have worked out differently.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

A strike from Rabaul was always the danger. This surely was clearly recognized from the earliest stages of planning the operation. It did not really become terribly more dangerous with 78 fighters than it was with 99. And Rabaul's strike aircraft had suffered equally heavy losses during their attacks on Turner earlier that day. Those results ought to have been encouraging.

But that's a view tinged with hindsight. All Fletecher knew for sure that day was that his fighter forces had suffered heavily. He didn't know what the Japanese had left, in the air or on the ground. Were I in his place I would not have felt encouragement from those results.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

A strike from Rabaul was always the danger. This surely was clearly recognized from the earliest stages of planning the operation. It did not really become terribly more dangerous with 78 fighters than it was with 99. And Rabaul's strike aircraft had suffered equally heavy losses during their attacks on Turner earlier that day. Those results ought to have been encouraging.

i don't know if i would have thought that at the time. The IJ could have moved in some emergency reinforcements from Truk or elsewhere, whereas the USN knew it wasn't getting any more aircraft.

[tsimmonds]

<shrugs> Yeah, I probably would have bugged out too. And I would have ended up in charge of some NAS somewhere. Navies in general eventually select Admirals who will fight over those who prefer not to. Of course, those who fight and lose don't fare well either. You have to be bold, smart, and lucky in order to stay in command of the striking force.

Fortune favors the bold.....until it doesn't.[;)]

[Nikademus]

There's truth in that, but i still prefer the smart, cautious commanders like a Jellicoe or Spruance vs. a hothead like a Beatty or Halsey.

[rtrapasso]

Fortune favors the bold.....until it doesn't.

Sniperkitty the Philosopher!! [&o] [&o] [:'(]

[rtrapasso]

OK - i just pulled out my copy of "The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign".

Whew - my memory isn't as faulty as i had feared.

The fleet tracks of the the invasion TF and the covering TF (page 31) show both the troopships and the Carrier TFs passing to the WEST of Guadalcanal. The troopships continued north and around the northwest corner (Cape Esperance) of Guadalcanal.

From the map on page 66:
The CVs stayed almost due West of the island until they moved a bit south of the island on the 7th, and then further South (S and SW of San Cristobal Is.) and eventually retreated to the SE.

There is supporting evidence for this as well: Allied fighters crashed West and South of Allied landing positions while attempting to return to the CVs, and the wreckage was found later, and USN airman that survived came into Allied lines from these directions.

i'll try to scan these these maps later and post them.

EDIT - So, i guess the point of this is that Morisson and Lundgrum don't agree on the position of Fletcher's carriers.

[rtrapasso]

Here is the map from page 31:

[BrucePowers]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

There's truth in that, but i still prefer the smart, cautious commanders like a Jellicoe or Spruance vs. a hothead like a Beatty or Halsey.

I agree completely.

[rtrapasso]

And here is the map from page 66:

[rtrapasso]

Here is the WITP map for comparison (AB's map in this case, however, the standard map is similar) - note that the chain is tilted in comparison to reality, so that the South coast of Guadalcanal has become the "West" coast.

If one remembers geography in terms of the game map (as i tend to do), certain distortions creep in! [:-] [:'(]