Loading Bugs

[Snowman999]

Does anyone have any tips/rules to minimize hassles with the TF-loading bugs introduced in the last patch?

I'm in mid-42 allies vs. AI. Moving units to Baker Island in prep for operations to the NW. Have let infantry and engineer units on West Coast fill out completely to TOE. When I load them into sufficiently-large transport TFs I get seemingly random behavior. I've tried combos of AKs and APs, single ship-type TFs, loading with supplies and without, I've tried to use exactly the listed lift capacities as well as provided several ships in excess of needs. Nothing I do seems to work, or even provide any consistent behavior. I inevitably end up forming single ship TFs, taking a chunk of the left-behinds, then repeating every turn until they finally all load. I've even seen 0 elements still in San Francisco but the command still being resident and letting me change the planning objective, even though all men and materiel are on the water.

Air units and Seabees ways seem to load first-time every-time. Larger units fragment more easily, but I've seen pretty small aircraft support units do so.

This is turning into my main time-sink. In my last game I ended up massively fragmented and I vowed to do better this time, but I have relatively few campaigns underway and it's nearly unmanageable already.

Any help?

[rtrapasso]

Usually, i will have at least a two-to-one excess of capacity - three to one is better... of course, this can be problematic if you are short of transports.

[Snowman999]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Usually, i will have at least a two-to-one excess of capacity - three to one is better... of course, this can be problematic if you are short of transports.

I am right now. Mid-42, building supply dumps. Am moving massive excess of AKs from India to US West Coast, via southern OZ, but they're not home yet. Even so, this is a really bad bug set.

[JeffroK]

I do as rtrapasso, overkill to ensure they all fit.
 
I also go "Load Combat units only" and create seperate supply convoys, I think there is an automatic % of supply loaded on transport convoys.
 
Dont expect to be able to do everything at once, especially in 42.
 
What loading bug??

[Sardaukar]

Yes, if you use command "Load Troops", there is always space left for certain amount of supplies, which can cause units to not load completely if you underestimate the need of cargo space. If transporting LCUs from base to another, use "Load Only Troops" to fit them more efficiently.

[apbarog]

I had experienced a fragmenting problem for quite awhile, until I determined that it was something that I was doing. I would load my task force, see that it was completely loaded, set it's new destination and home port, and click Unload, so that it would immediately start unloading at its destination. The next turn, all or part of the unit would be back at the port of origin, and the task force will have left port.

I avoid this now by clicking Unload only after leaving port.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: apbarog

I had experienced a fragmenting problem for quite awhile, until I determined that it was something that I was doing. I would load my task force, see that it was completely loaded, set it's new destination and home port, and click Unload, so that it would immediately start unloading at its destination. The next turn, all or part of the unit would be back at the port of origin, and the task force will have left port.

I avoid this now by clicking Unload only after leaving port.

True that.
Also, there is an annoying bug in 1.8.04 where TFs stop loading/unloading when another TF is disbanded in same port. So have to check that too...sometimes makes using Auto-disband annoying..especially since I prefer to play 2-day turns.

[fokkov]

It seems to me by experience that when you first replenish a tf and than order to load troops in the same turn that some or all vessel don't load any troops , same when replenish first , than disband and form new tf with the same vessels.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: fokkov

It seems to me by experience that when you first replenish a tf and than order to load troops in the same turn that some or all vessel don't load any troops , same when replenish first , than disband and form new tf with the same vessels.

That is because you run out of operation points of ships. Refuel/rearm in port uses usually most of 1000 ops points available for turn..leaving none for loading etc. You can see it on TF screen, ops points for all ships are listed in one of the columns.

[saj42]

I have NO problems with loading under 1.804. Mind you I do have a process.

1. I always open the individual unit screen to see the real load requirement.
2. Allocate upto 50% extra ship capacity
3. Create small TFs to load 1 unit at a time - then combine them after load complete
4. Always set 'do not unload' before clicking 'load unit'
5. Never set destination until loading is complete
6. Never use a ship that has over 500 op points used for refuelling in port - prefer not to use ships that have refuelled at all

This may take a day or two longer but IT WORKS FOR ME

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: fokkov

It seems to me by experience that when you first replenish a tf and than order to load troops in the same turn that some or all vessel don't load any troops , same when replenish first , than disband and form new tf with the same vessels.

I've seen the same thing, however, it can even be a TF with "0" op points. You hit "Load Troops", and nothing loads. What I've had to do is pull 1 AP (or AK) out of the TF and into it's own TF. That AP will now load. Put the AP back into the original TF and pull out another ship....repeat. Kind of a pain, but it works.

ORIGINAL : Tallyho!

1. I always open the individual unit screen to see the real load requirement.
2. Allocate upto 50% extra ship capacity
3. Create small TFs to load 1 unit at a time - then combine them after load complete
4. Always set 'do not unload' before clicking 'load unit'
5. Never set destination until loading is complete
6. Never use a ship that has over 500 op points used for refuelling in port - prefer not to use ships that have refuelled at all

I use the same steps...especially #3...I only create ONE TF to load ONE LCU at a time and then combine. The program is a very poor Loadmaster.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

ORIGINAL: fokkov

It seems to me by experience that when you first replenish a tf and than order to load troops in the same turn that some or all vessel don't load any troops , same when replenish first , than disband and form new tf with the same vessels.

I've seen the same thing, however, it can even be a TF with "0" op points. You hit "Load Troops", and nothing loads. What I've had to do is pull 1 AP (or AK) out of the TF and into it's own TF. That AP will now load. Put the AP back into the original TF and pull out another ship....repeat. Kind of a pain, but it works.

ORIGINAL : Tallyho!

1. I always open the individual unit screen to see the real load requirement.
2. Allocate upto 50% extra ship capacity
3. Create small TFs to load 1 unit at a time - then combine them after load complete
4. Always set 'do not unload' before clicking 'load unit'
5. Never set destination until loading is complete
6. Never use a ship that has over 500 op points used for refuelling in port - prefer not to use ships that have refuelled at all

I use the same steps...especially #3...I only create ONE TF to load ONE LCU at a time and then combine. The program is a very poor Loadmaster.

Yes - the last is vital - one TF per LCU, then combine them at the end...

[Snowman999]

ORIGINAL: apbarog

I had experienced a fragmenting problem for quite awhile, until I determined that it was something that I was doing. I would load my task force, see that it was completely loaded, set it's new destination and home port, and click Unload, so that it would immediately start unloading at its destination. The next turn, all or part of the unit would be back at the port of origin, and the task force will have left port.

I avoid this now by clicking Unload only after leaving port.

I've always done what you say above in para #1. Re-fuel, order the load-out (with or without supplies), set the destination, but leave the Unload command in force. This makes for the most hands-off process as I don't have to track each TF on the next turn to change to Unload.

What I suspect is I'm not tracking Op points and the refuel eats more than I'd thought. The TF loads what it can on that turn and leaves unfilled. I think this because I've also been seeing some TFs not instantly load after I back up to the base level when I do a Troops Only command.

I'll try it your way. But it does seem as if this didn't happen before the last patch. I've always used both Load Troops Only and Load With Supplies and didn't have the fragmentation problems. Using 50% or 100% more ships than stated is also a work-around, but that removes a lot of the Allies core advantage in the first 18 months.

[Snowman999]

[/quote]

True that.
Also, there is an annoying bug in 1.8.04 where TFs stop loading/unloading when another TF is disbanded in same port. So have to check that too...sometimes makes using Auto-disband annoying..especially since I prefer to play 2-day turns.
[/quote]

I haven't seen this, but I've seen TFs that were partly loaded when I save be "Idle" but partly full when I reload the game next time.

[JeffroK]

Blimey, the trouble people go to.  Where do I get micromanagement for dummies, I'm missing something.
 
I create my Task Force, having an idea of what i am loading so i have enough lift points, select units to be loaded and then allocate the destination. The ships should be refuelde anyway.
 
Seems to work 99% of the time, any problems are blamed on the Wharfies and I try again next day.
 
IRL, loading takes so much longer than in WITP that a days delay means nothing.
 
I have few fragments, usually they are caused by panicking and rushing whatever I can to the front.

[Snowman999]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Blimey, the trouble people go to.  Where do I get micromanagement for dummies, I'm missing something.

I create my Task Force, having an idea of what i am loading so i have enough lift points, select units to be loaded and then allocate the destination. The ships should be refuelde anyway.

Seems to work 99% of the time, any problems are blamed on the Wharfies and I try again next day.

IRL, loading takes so much longer than in WITP that a days delay means nothing.

I have few fragments, usually they are caused by panicking and rushing whatever I can to the front.

I'm not rushing anything. I'm loading one fully-formed division at a time on a TF that is large enough according to the game's GUI. I don't have lift available right now to make every one 200% in size, however. This used to work better; my fragments used to be due to rushing as you say and being new to the game.

I seem to remember a thread in the past month or two about this. Someone with de-bugging experience said he suspected a "blown pointer" in the last patch that was causing fragmentation where there didn't used to be as much. If you're not playing with the latest patch you won't be seeing involuntary fragmentation.

That said, as I said, I think I may be adding to my troubles by not watching Op points like a hawk.

[JeffroK]

I meant my panicking[:)]
 
Most of these sorts of problems fall under my heading of S&*^%%$$$$#t happens!!
 
IRL all sorts of stuff occured, 1 Marine Div arrived in EnZed and the ships had to be emptied and repacked for a combat landing, the game doesnt demand that. (I'd make it mandatory for a TF to be an Amphib type rather than a Transport type) In both OZ & EnZed there were Labour problems, occaisionaly the troops had to load/unload ships, the game doesnt cover that either. 
 
I put up with little problems as being "friction", it takes a day or 2 longer than you hope. 
 
I try and see the Forest while understanding that it needs the trees to exist.

[Mynok]

For divisions, which can indeed be an issue, make your TF with Do Not Unload set and no destination. Load Only Troops and select your division. Once the "loading troops" goes away, check for a fragment. If there is one, make another small TF big enough for the fragment and Load Only troops. When it finishes, transfer the ships into the first TF and set your destination. Be sure to toggle Unload before it reaches the destination.

[Snowman999]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


For divisions, which can indeed be an issue, make your TF with Do Not Unload set and no destination. Load Only Troops and select your division. Once the "loading troops" goes away, check for a fragment. If there is one, make another small TF big enough for the fragment and Load Only troops. When it finishes, transfer the ships into the first TF and set your destination. Be sure to toggle Unload before it reaches the destination.

This is good advice and I'll be doing this from now on, especially with my assault units. It's a bit tedious, but it's better than having 1/8 of your division back in SF running around the Wharf district while their buddies are storming ashore.

I went back and found the thread where the new 1.8 bugs were discussed. It was called "Micromanagement" and started out on transport planes and went into ships mid-way. Several people said they noticed more fragmentation in the last patch.

[MarcA]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

I have NO problems with loading under 1.804. Mind you I do have a process.

1. I always open the individual unit screen to see the real load requirement.
2. Allocate upto 50% extra ship capacity
3. Create small TFs to load 1 unit at a time - then combine them after load complete
4. Always set 'do not unload' before clicking 'load unit'
5. Never set destination until loading is complete
6. Never use a ship that has over 500 op points used for refuelling in port - prefer not to use ships that have refuelled at all

This may take a day or two longer but IT WORKS FOR ME

I use Tallyho!'s method, except that I never use ships with op points. I have had only one failure to load properly using this method, an EAB in San Franscisco. But as Mynok says, in these cases the best thing to do is to form a seperate TF, load the fragment onto it and then combine with the parent's TF.

I also have trouble with TF's loadiung supplies sometimes. Quiet often they will half load and then just stop for no apperent reason. You can tell them to start loading again and this works fine.

It is an annoying little bug that's crept in. It just requires more micromanagment than usual to offset