Buzz's Fite Mod

[Guesclin]

I've received the files and it's working like a charm. Thanks again. [:)]

I have a question regarding the Axis.
In the stock version (and in the mod), the panzergrenadiers regiments cannot switch mid-game to the AT- version of the heavy rifle squad unlike the infantry regiments. It contradicts what's written in the background.doc file that comes with the scenario which states that the PzG will receive "Assault squads AT+. For the same reason as the other German units". I realize it's since been "downgraded" to HSR AT-, but why are they not available to PzG ?
I'm guessing I must be missing something very obvious here but I thought I'd asked anyway.

[LLv34_Snefens]

We hadn't discussed other than all german units would be able to get the AT- squads, so it's 100% a bug. Looking back it's easy to figure out what have happend.
The editor is a dangerous equipment, so if a unit has 24 types of equipment and you add an extra it simply deletes the type at the bottom. At some point in one of the version we must have added new equipment to the PzG regs without checking if we had reached the limit and the Hvy Rifle AT- "fell off the table" so to speak.

It's a pity, and it means that late in the game the PzG regs will suffer a slow withering death. There still remains 27780 slots in the units (regular Inf regs)that DO have the AT- squads. With an replacement rate of 308/turn starting at turn 265, theoretical the Germans can run out of free slots on turn 355. But that's if they don't take any casualties at all. In practise it's not gonna matter that much.

[Zort]

Thanks for the info. Here is what a PzG reg contains. Is there something you would want to remove for the Hvy Rifle AT?

[sPzAbt653]

May I suggest the Pz II Flames? Achtung Panzer reports there were 90 of these made and for Barbarossa all were organised into two abt. given to the 7th and 18th Pz Divisions. All were retired in Dec. '41 to be converted into Marders. Therefore it may not be necessary to have them occupying a slot in all pzgr regs. If it is desired to keep them in the oob, maybe add all 90 to the pz regs of the 7th and 18th?

[Jeff Norton]

Dumb question time, but, how many slots are available in the equipment editor? Can more equipment be added?

I see there is, what, 10 free slots at the end of the list. Using BioEd, can more be added to the DB?

-J

[Veers]

You can put as many as you want in, if you write over existant equipment.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

May I suggest the Pz II Flames? Achtung Panzer reports there were 90 of these made and for Barbarossa all were organised into two abt. given to the 7th and 18th Pz Divisions. All were retired in Dec. '41 to be converted into Marders. Therefore it may not be necessary to have them occupying a slot in all pzgr regs. If it is desired to keep them in the oob, maybe add all 90 to the pz regs of the 7th and 18th?

Looking into it, the Pz Reg '41's don't withdraw until a year after the PzII's were retired, so it wouldn't be proper to add the flames to those units of the 7th and 18th PzDiv's. I might try putting them in their separate abteilungs to see how it works.

Does anybody know how many HRAT- squads should be added to the PzGr Reg's? 100? 120? 80?

[sPzAbt653]

re: 22. Changed Soviet production: 200% on turn 48, 150% on turn 78.


Is the 150% on turn 78 in addition to the 150% in 1944? Or does it replace it?


Thanks.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

May I suggest the Pz II Flames? Achtung Panzer reports there were 90 of these made and for Barbarossa all were organised into two abt. given to the 7th and 18th Pz Divisions. All were retired in Dec. '41 to be converted into Marders. Therefore it may not be necessary to have them occupying a slot in all pzgr regs. If it is desired to keep them in the oob, maybe add all 90 to the pz regs of the 7th and 18th?

Looking into it, the Pz Reg '41's don't withdraw until a year after the PzII's were retired, so it wouldn't be proper to add the flames to those units of the 7th and 18th PzDiv's. I might try putting them in their separate abteilungs to see how it works.

Does anybody know how many HRAT- squads should be added to the PzGr Reg's? 100? 120? 80?

Depends on the single Regiment. Can't speak with certainity for the early years, but 43+ the PzGren Regt consisted of two battalions, three in some elite units i.e. the Leibstandarde or das Reich.. For three Bns per Regt i'd take 81 (3*27 combat squads), for two 54.
I would also take 27 combat squads per Bn for the earlier PzGren Regt (for both, the armoured and the motorised one). As i said i am not entirely sure, but there were two Bns per PzGren Regt aka (Motorisiertes) Schützenregiment already in 41 (except elite units with 3).

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks for that! I just love mulling over this Fite oob! I just reached turn 24 and now I am sick that I can't go all the way to the end as the PzGr reg's will be severely handicapped after the beginning of '44. Oh, well, I must fix it and start over. Um, unless I can open my turn 24 in the editor and make the changes there. What do you think?

So the way I am reading this, if I modify the 1st PzGr Reg of the 1st Pz Div, I would add 54 HRAT- squads? (as it is a two battalion unit). And of course starting at 0/squads as the HRAT- come in at the beginning of 1944.

These regiments must have had more squads per battalion in 1941, as the 1st PzGr starts the game with 120/100 squads, and it only had two battalions per regiment.

[Karri]

Some notes:
1. Supply situation and cease fire. I'd like to remove the cease fire periods completely. Instead those should be replaced by same amount of turns with extremely low supply, low rail repair and low supply radius. Also drop shock and air shock to say 80% for both sides. After the...7 turns is it? anyways when ground freezes those values will rise back to normal. This should hit the Axis heavier since they have been moving further from their core area while Soviets have been withdrawing towards theirs.

Also I would like to double if not triple the automatic rail repair for germans, however lowering it when the mud hits. To my undrestanding the rail roads were pretty quickly repaired...?

2. Air units. The Soviet air is too powerful. First of all make the low shock affect it way longer. Give the Germans a higher air shock for longer.

3. Soviet border units should be mobile and on minimise losses on the first turn.

4. Soviet units in Finnish border should not activate before finns do. Same with Romanians.

On top of that I am going to go thbrough the numbers for production for both sides. The system is to my undrestanding designed for historical production...unfortunately not every, if any, games are historical and therefore strange things happen. I think I calcualted that even if Soviets lose every city they still have 8% or something production.

[Karri]

And I am also looking how to make it easier for the Finns to defend East Karelia. Currently their troops are no enough for that...

[Telumar]

Thanks for that! I just love mulling over this Fite oob! I just reached turn 24 and now I am sick that I can't go all the way to the end as the PzGr reg's will be severely handicapped after the beginning of '44. Oh, well, I must fix it and start over. Um, unless I can open my turn 24 in the editor and make the changes there. What do you think?

So the way I am reading this, if I modify the 1st PzGr Reg of the 1st Pz Div, I would add 54 HRAT- squads? (as it is a two battalion unit). And of course starting at 0/squads as the HRAT- come in at the beginning of 1944.

These regiments must have had more squads per battalion in 1941, as the 1st PzGr starts the game with 120/100 squads, and it only had two battalions per regiment.

I suggest you to visit this:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/ (go to OOBs, Gliederungen amd KStN)
http://www.lexikonderwehrmacht.de/
http://www.feldgrau.com/
http://www.tdg.nu/OOBs/1939-1945/oob_to ... 9-1945.htm
http://orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/000_admin/000oob.htm
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

On the 120 squads, the designers of the original FitE have adressed this in the original briefing.

I wouldn't load a turn into the editor, it will mess up later events as your former turn 24 will be counted as the new turn 1. Well, renaming a pbl or sal file extension to .sce to load it into the scenario editor was possible in COW, i don't know if this is still possible.

[sPzAbt653]

Just my thoughts, I will make reference when I am giving something from 'real'source.

1. So far I haven't minded the cease fires too much. As the overall commander of one side or the other I figure there will be major occurences of things beyong my control. Guderian did say that there was no supply problem until the mud came, then the trucks couldn't get to the front from the railheads. He stated this was the reason for all movement and offensive operations coming to a halt.

Hitler and Halder both called the German rail situation 'catastrophic'. Even as late as February '42 the rail system still failed to fuction. Hitler himself saw it as such a disaster that he ordered a committee of investigation. As I played this game the first time, I felt that it was far too easy for the Germans to have effective railheads very near their fontlines. As I love to tinker with these games I have in the past eliminated most of the railrepair units and increased the auto-repair slightly over time, recreating a 'catastrophy' that over the time span of the game becomes better.

2. I do remember reading somewhere that the Soviet airforce was considered ineffective until late in '43. But as I am no expert on air power, I don't know who made this statement or how true it was.

3. I never know what to do with Soviet border units early in the struggle. Historically communications and supplies were down, and they were left on their own. Some resisted bravely, some threw down their rifles and surrendered, others fled into the countryside. How to get a computer to accurately potray this?

4. I'm not so interested in how the Finn and Romanian border areas are handled, so I won't comment.

Production I don't know alot about, but the Russians did effectively move almost all their heavy industry to west of the Urals. When Lend Lease was added, they were unstopable.

[Karri]

• Irregular squad 68 507
  Military Police Squad 12 089
  Mounted Rifle Squad(late) 45 839
  Motorcycle squad 32 238
  Light Rifle squad 81 100
  Rifle squad 586 840
  Heavy Rifle Squad 145 576
  SMG squad 224 661
  SMG AT- Squad 9 799
  Assault Squad 57 163
  Reconneisance Rifle Team 10 074
  Reconneisance Assault Team 2 519
  Engineer Squad 139 532
  Rail Repair Crew 15 112
  Ferry-Bridging Team 40 802
  Support Squad 40 298
  Command Group 16 623
  Medium MG 61 958
  Heavy MG 152 629
  AT Rifle 202 497
  Heavy AT Rifle 11 615
  28mm AT Gun 2 015
  45mm AT Gun 92 182
  50mm AT Gun 504
  57mm/6 Pounder AT Gun 8 060
  76mm AT Gun 2 519
  85mm AT Gun 2 529
  75mm Gun 1 511
  76mm Gun 73 040
  76mm ER Gun 12 094
  76mm Howitzer 24 683
  107mm Gun 18 511
  107mm ER Gun
  122mm Howitzer 10 074
  122mm Gun 5 541
  122mm ER Gun 8 060
  130mm ER Gun 63
  152mm Howitzer 1 007
  152mm Gun 3 022
  152mm ER Gun 4 534
  180mm ER Gun 504
  203mm Howitzer 504
  305mm Gun 40
  50mm Mortar 189 834
  82mm Mortar 188 393
  107mm Mortar 7 052
  120mm Mortar 43 824
  160mm Mortar 2 454
  280mm Fixed Gun
  300mm Fixed Gun
  400mm Fixed Gun
  305mm RR Gun
  Armored Train 9
  82mm Katyusha MRL 1 511
  82mm Katyusha SPMRL 2 519
  132mm Katyusha SPMRL 8 095
  300mm MRL 3 113
  BM-13 132mm SPMRL 1 008
  Truck SPAAMG 2 015
  Dual AAMG 5 037
  Quad AAMG 5 541
  37mm AA Gun 22 164
  76mm AA Gun 11 586
  85mm AA Gun 4 534
  Light Scout Car 2 789
  Jeep 44 624
  Medium Scout Car 2 325
  Wheeled 20mm Scout 1 312
  BA-10 Armored Car 31 231
  BA-20 Armored Car 13 453
  BA-64 Armored Car 7 989
  Horse Team 256 900
  Fast Horse Team 15 112
  Truck 101 249
  Halftrack 8 997
  Amphibious Ferry 900
  PzKpfw IIIJ 450
  T-26 2 742
  T-26(flame)
  T-27
  T-28(early) 40
  T-28(late) 40
  T-37 1 089
  T-38 565
  T-40 605
  T-60 5 988
  T-70 28 459
  BT-5
  BT-7 2 016
  OT-7
  T-35
  KV-I(early) 2 261
  KV-I(late) 456
  KV-II 202
  KV-85 215
  T-34/76(early) 8 445
  T-34/76(flame) 232
  T-34/76(late) 28 415
  T-34/85 39 360
  SU-76 20 497
  SU-85 4 530
  SU-100 4 889
  ISU-122 3 937
  ISU-152 5 279
  IS-II 5 627
  Matilda II 1 263
  Valentine(early) 4 789
  M3 Lee/Grant 1 819
  M4/75 Sherman 5 760
  Destroyer 6
  Cruiser(early) 3
  Light Cruiser 3
  Heavy Cruiser 3
  Battlecruiser
  Battleship 2
  I-15
  I-16 5 525
  SB-2
  Il-4 3 386
  Il-2 51 884
  LaGG-3 7 418
  La-5FN 13 065
  La-7 8 624
  MiG-1
  MiG-3 2 420
  Pe-2 15 053
  Su-2
  Tu-2 1 417
  Yak-1 18 745
  Yak-4
  Yak-9 32 136
  Hurricane 3 747
  Spitfire(late) 1 874
  Lancaster(late) 2 833
  Tempest 2 361
  SBD Dauntless 2 833
  A-20 Havoc 4 794
  B-17(late) 2 015
  B-26 Marauder(late) 2 015
  P-39 Aircobra 8 266
  P-40(late) 2 908
  P-51 Mustang(late) 8 563

Soviet production figures...there might be slight calculation erros but nothing drastic.

[Karri]

The message boards screw up the format, but you get the idea. Now I need to check these to historical productions(where to find those...). This is btw supposed to be the historical production. DOes not include starting pool nor assigned equipment, just production.

[sPzAbt653]

Telumar,

Thanks again for the great info, especially that about loading a turn into the editor.

[larryfulkerson]

I'm not for sure positive but I don't think a person can edit a *.sal file.  I know you used to be able to do that with COW but I'm thinking T3 "fixed" that so that you couldn't.  Cheat possibility don't you see.

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks Mr. Fulkerson, I have already decided not to mess with it. The editor has been very nice to me and I don't want to give her reason to go psychotic on me!

[Karri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_arm ... rld_War_II

Any other sites for production figures?

Anyways according to that site, the Soviet production figures for tanks are a bit off. Not just a bit off, actualy way off in some perspectives. I have to check my calculations actually...but if it's not because of the calculatiosn the Soviets are receiving too many tanks.

For example T-70 in FitE has production of about 28 000 while according to the site only about 8000 were produced.

Of course this could be because of grouping multiple tank types as one.

Same seems to go with aircraft, some are built up to three times the amount...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... nd_the_CIS