UK campaign and D-Day

rexmonday · Post by **rexmonday** » Sun Aug 13, 2000 7:40 am

Okay - this could be a premature post, I've only run a couple of trial runs, but does the UK get take part in D-Day itself, or do they just start off in Caen or Villers-Bocage? I ran a couple of tests and none of them had UK starting in the water when the campaign began 6/44. The US came up with a beach landing first try.

Desert Fox · Post by **Desert Fox** » Sun Aug 13, 2000 10:13 am

Well, I have never run a UK campaign that far, so I don't know a definite answer to that. My feeling is that they probably should have some sort of amphibious operation then, since the WW2 campaign is supposed to be loosely based on WW2.
However, historically, there was very little opposition on the British beaches, so maybe they should just start on the land.
But then again, since the campaign is only loosely based on the war, maybe they should be forced to go up against heavy defenses.
Hmm, guess what I'm saying is I don't have a clue.

Wallymanowar · Post by **Wallymanowar** » Sun Aug 13, 2000 10:54 am

"However, historically, there was very little opposition on the British beaches"

While the casualties suffered by the Anglo-Canadian forces during the landing on the Normandy beaches were less than casualties on Omaha beach, the opposition could not be classied as very little.

Casualties on the various beaches are as follows: Utah beach (American) - 197, Omaha beach (American) - 2000+ (this is an official estimate), Gold Beach (British) - 413, Juno Beach (Canadian) - 961, Sword Beach (British) - 630. The airborne landings averaged a loss of 1200 people for each division. These figures are taken form the official history of the Canadian army, with British and American numbers supplied from their official histories.

While it can be seen that historically Omaha beach was the worst place to be, the other beaches weren't a walk in the park either. The Airborne landings were even more hectic.

One of the things spoken about in the official Canadian history is the legend that the operation was 'easy and almost bloodless'. This arises from the fact that the estimates for casualties for June 6th were for 9250 (including 3000 drowned). For the Canadian forces (including the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion - attached to the British 6th Airborne Division) this would have meant 1982 casualties. Since the Canadian 'share' was actually 1074 casualties , it meant that for us it was a lot lighter than expected. Still, it was not that easy.

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'Bitter Mike'

[This message has been edited by Mike Tremblay (edited August 13, 2000).]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Aug 13, 2000 7:46 pm

Very illuminating post, Mike! Thank you...WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Aug 14, 2000 8:56 pm

I guess we are just going to have to do some UK landing scenarios for D-Day, my friend. They certainly deserve to be there.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Mon Aug 14, 2000 9:18 pm

The Canadians deserve a lot for WWII. I don't want to start up a discussion or anything, but as I pry back into the history of WWII I'm learning a lot about the employment of the Canadians... You just dont hear much about it out there in the real world.

Tomo

McGib · Post by **McGib** » Mon Aug 14, 2000 9:22 pm

You beat me to it Tombstone. And to be fair you should think about a scenario for french commandos too WB. They also landed in the first wave.

rexmonday · Post by **rexmonday** » Tue Aug 15, 2000 5:00 am

Hurrah! D-day!
Now after getting slaughtered all over North Africa and around the Mediterranean, my units can go and get slaughtered in Normandy.

As far as the Canadians go: I thought it pretty strange that in SPWW2v3 there IS a Canadian campaign, but its timescale left out the raid on Dieppe.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Aug 15, 2000 6:37 am

Point taken and agreed with...Thanks...WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Dave R · Post by **Dave R** » Wed Aug 16, 2000 4:21 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wild Bill:
I guess we are just going to have to do some UK landing scenarios for D-Day, my friend. They certainly deserve to be there.

Wild Bill

OK this is shooting off at a bit of a tangent, but it reminded me of a story from my army days!
I was a tanker in the 13th/18th Hussars in the early 80's.
Now according to the official Regemental history, the regiment was the first British Armoured regiment to hit the beach.
The reading is stiring stuff, going on about how the regiment lost over a third of it's Shirman DD's as it swam ashore under 'stiff' German fire. The stuff of heros! We had all this pictures in our minds eyes of explosions abound as the DD's struggled ashore.
That was until the regiment was presented with new colours in 82, and there was a lot of the old boys visiting then the real story got told!
Yeah! There was a lot of fire from the Germans, mainly small armes and morters. What the regimental history didn't mention was the fact that the reason almost a 1/3rd of the regiment was lost was because the lads haden't errected the floatation screens right, and most of the DD's just plain sank!
A lil bit different from what they would have us believe!

Drake666 · Post by **Drake666** » Wed Aug 16, 2000 5:45 am

Yup, the Sherman DDs in the rough seas of the D-Day landing did not fair to will. On omaha many LCT's that were to drop the tanks off shore desided to bring them all the way in becouse of what they say happing to the DDs that were already droped.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Aug 16, 2000 5:57 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tombstone:
T I'm learning a lot about the employment of the Canadians... You just dont hear much about it out there in the real world.

I guess it depends which real world you live in.

Scot · Post by **Scot** » Thu Aug 17, 2000 5:46 am

Right On!!! Been gone for 7 weeks with Canadian Infantry training with the reserves and it's about damn time the Canadians are finally recognized! Just bought Military history of Canada book and some of you should not only look at what Canada has done in WWII, but also with WWI and Korea. Brings a tear to my eye as it drops into my beer.

Scot

Rhone · Post by **Rhone** » Thu Aug 17, 2000 9:28 am

I just finished reading the (short) account of Juno Beach in Stephen Ambrose book DDay. The beach assault was pretty nasty. Ambrose doesn't really get into it, though. The book is primarily to recount the invasion from the Omaha standpoint and that is terrifying simply to read about it.