Unit Depictions on Screen

[Froonp]

Hello Doctormm, here is what your avatar would look like in MWiF [:D].

[doctormm]

Patrice -
I was wondering about doing just that. Thanks for saving me the effort.
Bob

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: doctormm

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here is a screen shot from setting up the Guadalcanal scenario. My question to you is about the Netherlands CA Sumatra which is now 'owned' by the Commonwealth, since the Netherlands has been conquered.

Being a bit anal here -

Assuming that the "new" world map is used (with Dutch Guyana as a minor country), then the Netherlans will not be conquered at the start of the Guadalcanal scenario...

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean. do you mean, ...

The Netherlands is incompletely conquered by Germany and sets up with NEI as its new home country. When the NEI is conquered by Japan, the Netherlands now moves its home country to Dutch Guyana? So the Sumatra should still be owned by the Netherlands instead of the CW?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here's the USSR side of Barbaossa, with the Black Sea fleet spread out so you can see them all. The box in the lower right corner contains the map views I have been using for the USSR for this scenario. It lets me jump around the map effortlessly.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: doctormm

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here is a screen shot from setting up the Guadalcanal scenario. My question to you is about the Netherlands CA Sumatra which is now 'owned' by the Commonwealth, since the Netherlands has been conquered.

Being a bit anal here -

Assuming that the "new" world map is used (with Dutch Guyana as a minor country), then the Netherlans will not be conquered at the start of the Guadalcanal scenario...

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean. do you mean, ...

The Netherlands is incompletely conquered by Germany and sets up with NEI as its new home country. When the NEI is conquered by Japan, the Netherlands now moves its home country to Dutch Guyana? So the Sumatra should still be owned by the Netherlands instead of the CW?

When the Netherlands is incompletely conquered, it can setup the NEI as its new home country, but it can also setup the UK as its home country,which is better.
When the NEI is conquered by Japan, the Netherlands is still incompletely conquered (whatever its new home country may have been) because it still own an aligned minor in the name of Dutch Guyana, so Dutch ships are still Dutch and not yet British (so there still are coop problems with non CW units). I think that he meant that.
When the NEI is conquered, Sumatra (as part of the NEI) is conquered too.

Edit : Hehe, I thought that you were toalkin of Sumatra, the island, in your answer, and I realize by reading it all that you meant the Cruiser [:D]. The Sumatra CA stays Dutch, that's it, as the Netherlands are not yet completely conquered.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
When the Netherlands is incompletely conquered, it can setup the NEI as its new home country, but it can also setup the UK as its home country,which is better.
When the NEI is conquered by Japan, the Netherlands is still incompletely conquered (whatever its new home country may have been) because it still own an aligned minor in the name of Dutch Guyana, so Dutch ships are still Dutch and not yet British (so there still are coop problems with non CW units). I think that he meant that.
When the NEI is conquered, Sumatra (as part of the NEI) is conquered too.

Edit : Hehe, I thought that you were toalkin of Sumatra, the island, in your answer, and I realize by reading it all that you meant the Cruiser [:D]. The Sumatra CA stays Dutch, that's it, as the Netherlands are not yet completely conquered.

Rats. I have to rethink this all again.

Take for example, the Yugoslavian cruiser that is part of the Italian setup in the Lebensraum scenario (as one example). Clearly this is a captured unit that the Italians have taken possession of. For all practical purposes in the game, it is Italian.

On the other hand, the CA Sumatra (Dutch) is part of the CW setup for Guadalcanal. But it is not clear to me whether the unit has been captured by the CW (and is now owned by the CW), or if it is still owned by the Netherlands.

The setup rules seem to use the same notation for both instances.

I had been assuming that the CA Sumatra was captured and was now owned by the CW at teh start of Guadalcanal. It appears you think that is incorrect.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Every once in a while, a bug presents a humorous outcome. Or perhaps the humor is simply a reflection of my distorted point of view after debugging for too long. Fro instacne, this popped up today. The coloring indicates that the Polish have lend leased the Bf 110G to the Germans and the French have also lend leased the Condor to them.

[Froonp]

I had been assuming that the CA Sumatra was captured and was now owned by the CW at teh start of Guadalcanal. It appears you think that is incorrect.

It depends on the status of conquest of the Netherlands.
Completely conquered : CA Sumatra is CW ship.
Incompletely conquered : CA Sumatra is Dutch ship controlled by the CW.
I think that the best is either to look at the conquest status of the Netherlands in this scenario, or if not mentionned to deduct it from the real situation that is that as Dutch Guyana is still Dutch, the Netherlands are not Completely Conquered.

Indeed, there should be no scenario in MWiF where the Netherlands is completely conquered.

[Mziln]

Section 24 Scenario Information does not distinguish between “Conquered” and “Incompletely conquered”. Perhaps this section needs to be updated to reflect the historical situation for the scenarios.

[trees]

["A Final Countdown" also features a brief shot of some guys playing Squad Leader. It would be a very popular scenario but I think the F-14s would need an a2A much higher than 15].

[doctormm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I had been assuming that the CA Sumatra was captured and was now owned by the CW at teh start of Guadalcanal. It appears you think that is incorrect.

Indeed, there should be no scenario in MWiF where the Netherlands is completely conquered.

That's more or less what I was getting at. The problem is, based on the original Guadalcanal scenario, The Netherlands are conquered. This has not been updated to reflect the "new reality" faced when using the AiF maps (paper game) or MWiF.

Given that, the Ne ships are still minor country units, and that brings into play the issue of cooperation.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: doctormm

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I had been assuming that the CA Sumatra was captured and was now owned by the CW at teh start of Guadalcanal. It appears you think that is incorrect.

Indeed, there should be no scenario in MWiF where the Netherlands is completely conquered.

That's more or less what I was getting at. The problem is, based on the original Guadalcanal scenario, The Netherlands are conquered. This has not been updated to reflect the "new reality" faced when using the AiF maps (paper game) or MWiF.

Given that, the Ne ships are still minor country units, and that brings into play the issue of cooperation.

This is all corrected now.

For Guadalcanal, MWIF aligns the Netherlands to the CW and then has Germany conquer it. Japan conquers the NEI and the program sets the new home country for the Netherlands as the United Kingdom. Lastly, I have the specific naval units that are mentioned in the setup moved from conquered status to the force pool, where the program can find them during setup.

CWIF (and now MWIF) has the correct code for working out whether a country was completely conquered or not, based on whether it has any controlled minors that are still unconquered. That is dynamic and can be used throughout the game, in addition to during setup.

I am moving all the naval units that appear in the setups for conquered countries into force pools. Besides Norway, Denmark, et al, there are also the French units which have to be reassigned to Vichy France or Free France.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Patrice has provided data (and bitmaps) for the new/revised units from teh 2007 counter sheets. I'll try to post screen s shots of them all over the next couple of days.

Here are the warlords.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here are some of the city based volunteers. Note that the Year entry gives the unit's city (e,g., Algiers)

[Shannon V. OKeets]

3rd and last in the series. Some more city based volunteers.

[mlees]

I am moving all the naval units that appear in the setups for conquered countries into force pools. Besides Norway, Denmark, et al, there are also the French units which have to be reassigned to Vichy France or Free France.

Hmm. Are you leaving out (scrap pool) naval units that have historical sunk dates that are prior (earlier) than the scenario start date?

If I recall, in CWiF, if a unit is destroyed, I am prompted with a choice of whether or not to scrap a unit. I (as a personal house rule) automatically scrap all named units (why rebuild the SCS Wyoming anyway?), but I get to decide whether or not to scrap a particular TRS or Sub unit.

However, for captured/conquered units, I don't think it is realistic that such a unit is returned to the force pool to be (potentially) rebuilt, sub/TRS or not.

For example: NEI becomes (and remains) incompletely conquered. The CW player gets control of a Dutch TRS. That unit is later sunk in naval combat. Can that unit be returned to the (CW) force pool?

Example 2: Germany captured the Java, when it was overrun in Amsterdam. The Java is now a German SCS unit, and placed in the repair pool. The German player repairs it. It is later sunk while trying to raid the convoys in the Atlantic. Does this unit automatically get scrapped, or could the German readd it to his force pool, to be rebuilt if desired? (Im not asking whether the German player should readd it, I'm asking whether he can...)

Edit: My apologies if this is too off topic...

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here are some of the city based volunteers. Note that the Year entry gives the unit's city (e,g., Algiers)

I think that, for this to be better, the inside boxes of the CBV who are controlled by major powers should be of the color of the minor country they originate from.
Example : The Russian "Bucharest" CBV INF should have the Rumanian inside box color.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: mlees
Hmm. Are you leaving out (scrap pool) naval units that have historical sunk dates that are prior (earlier) than the scenario start date?

If I recall, in CWiF, if a unit is destroyed, I am prompted with a choice of whether or not to scrap a unit. I (as a personal house rule) automatically scrap all named units (why rebuild the SCS Wyoming anyway?), but I get to decide whether or not to scrap a particular TRS or Sub unit.

However, for captured/conquered units, I don't think it is realistic that such a unit is returned to the force pool to be (potentially) rebuilt, sub/TRS or not.

For example: NEI becomes (and remains) incompletely conquered. The CW player gets control of a Dutch TRS. That unit is later sunk in naval combat. Can that unit be returned to the (CW) force pool?

Example 2: Germany captured the Java, when it was overrun in Amsterdam. The Java is now a German SCS unit, and placed in the repair pool. The German player repairs it. It is later sunk while trying to raid the convoys in the Atlantic. Does this unit automatically get scrapped, or could the German readd it to his force pool, to be rebuilt if desired? (Im not asking whether the German player should readd it, I'm asking whether he can...)

A question similar to this was already asked ans is in our list of frequently asked questions :

Question :
When a naval unit is captured and then later destroyed who chooses if it is scrapped or not, and whose force pool does it go back to?

Harry's Answer :
It goes back into the current owner’s (i.e. the capturer’s) force pool. Date: 30/07/97

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here are some of the city based volunteers. Note that the Year entry gives the unit's city (e,g., Algiers)

I think that, for this to be better, the inside boxes of the CBV who are controlled by major powers should be of the color of the minor country they originate from.
Example : The Russian "Bucharest" CBV INF should have the Rumanian inside box color.

Ok. I'll try to get to that today - it's easy.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I think that, for this to be better, the inside boxes of the CBV who are controlled by major powers should be of the color of the minor country they originate from.
Example : The Russian "Bucharest" CBV INF should have the Rumanian inside box color.

Ok. I'll try to get to that today - it's easy.

Great.
I noticed that this is the way they are done on the countersheets.