Moderators: Joel Billings, wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
ORIGINAL: MineSweeper
Treespider, here is a chart showing the capabilties (range wise) of AA guns (German)....FYI....need to find the japanese models......
ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
ORIGINAL: MineSweeper
Treespider, here is a chart showing the capabilties (range wise) of AA guns (German)....FYI....need to find the japanese models......
The one thing this does do is show just how rediculous the 13,000 ft. ceiling for the 13mm (basically .50 cal. class) MG shown above is. It's unbelievable just how much of the "research" for this game turns out to be garbage....
ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
"Effective" is the key word. The shell might be effective at 2.5 miles..., but delivering it accurately against a rapidly moving target with a hand-directed mounting at that range is wishfull thinking at best.
ORIGINAL: MineSweeper
Plus, I might add that the germans had the finest AA weapontry in the war IMO.....Though the US 90 mm and the Swedish 40mm bofors were great weapons.....Japanese, not so good----their 25mm was terrible with regard to reloading......
Though, I must add that the proximity fuse made a huge difference regarding US AA....[;)]
ORIGINAL: MineSweeper
Curiously the 25mm had an even shorter effective ceiling than the 13mm...
also from -
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_25mm-60_mg.htm
Range
.
Elevation With 0.55 lbs. (0.25 kg) HE Shell
Range @ 45 degrees 7,439 yards (6,800 m)
Range @ 50 degrees 8,200 yards (7,500 m)
AA Ceiling @ 85 degrees Effective: 9,843 feet (3,000 m)
Maximum: 18,040 feet (5,500 m)
Note: The sources listed below disagree as to the ranges and AA ceiling for this weapon. I have chosen to use those given in "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War."
That is strange...[&:]
ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
"Effective" is the key word. The shell might be effective at 2.5 miles..., but delivering it accurately against a rapidly moving target with a hand-directed mounting at that range is wishfull thinking at best.
ORIGINAL: castor troy
while I know of raids with heavy bombers against the home islands I doubt that in real war the Japanese AA defense was so bad that in real life Allied commanders could have come up with the same they do in WITP: THE LOWER THE BETTER! I see that in all my games (excluding Nikmod - which IMO seems a bit too effective [;)]).
What I´ve experienced in years of playing: 6000 feet must be the just perfect altitude for Allied bombers. No morale hit, best accuracy, weak flak (too high for effective small AA gun fire, too low for heavy AA guns). When flak is more dangerous at 20.000 feet why come in high if I can go in at 6000 feet also. 6000 ft still too much flak, let´s go lower... 2000 ft seems perfect now... let´s go on at 2000 ft...
No doubt that Japanese flak was not what you would like it to be as a Japanese commander. Though I doubt that in 4 years of war there would not be a real quick development of AA defense if the standard, perfect, super dupi altitude of Allied 4Es would be 6.000 ft.
Again: in WITP what "normally" happened in real life - means a lot of flak, let´s go higher - is reverted in the game - means a lot of flak, let´s go lower... [8|]
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: castor troy
while I know of raids with heavy bombers against the home islands I doubt that in real war the Japanese AA defense was so bad that in real life Allied commanders could have come up with the same they do in WITP: THE LOWER THE BETTER! I see that in all my games (excluding Nikmod - which IMO seems a bit too effective [;)]).
What I´ve experienced in years of playing: 6000 feet must be the just perfect altitude for Allied bombers. No morale hit, best accuracy, weak flak (too high for effective small AA gun fire, too low for heavy AA guns). When flak is more dangerous at 20.000 feet why come in high if I can go in at 6000 feet also. 6000 ft still too much flak, let´s go lower... 2000 ft seems perfect now... let´s go on at 2000 ft...
No doubt that Japanese flak was not what you would like it to be as a Japanese commander. Though I doubt that in 4 years of war there would not be a real quick development of AA defense if the standard, perfect, super dupi altitude of Allied 4Es would be 6.000 ft.
Again: in WITP what "normally" happened in real life - means a lot of flak, let´s go higher - is reverted in the game - means a lot of flak, let´s go lower... [8|]
Actually, IRL - it did work out to "lots of flak - let's go lower" - and evolved into skip bombing, where flak losses were cut to a minimum, and casualties went down, bombing accuracy went up, and morale went up. Of course, this is not exactly what happens in the game where the morale drops, and you get cut up with 100' attacks. And remember: the tactics were first worked out (for the US) by B-17s (4E heavy bombers), although the speedier mediums perfected the method later.
If one demands accuracy in the game model - would you be willing to swap fixing "the flak gap" for realistic skip-bombing attacks?
