Saipan Invasion Question

[DuckofTindalos]

And once you think you've bombarded enough, bombard a bit more. It sounds like a cliché, but get all the disruption you can.

[Nightcrawler1]

I'm in a similar situation in my game. It's my first full game (vs. AI) so I'm still learning. At the moment, I'm the Allies, it's October '43 and I have Pagan. However, Saipan has 66 (yes 66!) Japanese ground units there. As it turns out, Tinian and Guam appear to be only weakly defended, with only two ground units each. (I have to do some recon to find out what they are, but I'm guessing they'll be manageable) So based on your advice it sounds like I should just ignore Saipan.

But out of curiosity, how would I go about attacking a well defended place like Saipan. I've tried bombardment a little, but the coastal guns just chew my capital ships up. (Escorts not bombarding) The limited amount of bombing I've done there has taken horrific flak losses that would be clearly unsustainable.

How can I soften up a place like that? Everything I've tried costs me a high price. Would there be any way to do it? The bombing was from carrier task forces, clearly a mistake in retrospect. Would heavy bombers have low enough losses to keep it up?

I'm not going to attack Saipan, but I assume sooner or later I'm going to have to go after a well defended base and I'm at a loss as to how to go about it.

[RUPD3658]

Having been on the recieving end of Allied bombardments I can attest to the fact that CD guns get beaten up pretty fast. Bomb and bombard for a week or two and the landing should not be that bad.

Plan on a month or so of LCU bombardment and deliberate attacks to get it to fall. Bring in more LCUs after the initail beachhead is established.

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

Looking at typical assault values for the types of units defending Saipan, I estimate 1500 AV. Assuming they are unsupplied then 25%, defending in Cm hex x3 = 1100AV or thereabouts. You are going to want to get 2000 AV on the beach ASAP.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong [&:](which is highly probable)

I think Cm is x4. And this doesn't include the fact there are probably many fort levels present.
Even if the supply is gone, could be a hard row to hoe. Being on the receiving end of several island assaults (where I held out for a looong time against longer odds than those cited), I can say that one key element is the luck of the draw in terms of engineers reducing fort levels.

[RUPD3658]

Typical Allied bombardment:

Naval bombardment of Tinian, at 62,65 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E7K2 Alf: 2 destroyed

9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AP Huso Maru, Shell hits 19, on fire, heavy damage sunk in port

Allied Ships
CL Leander
CL Boise
CA Wichita
CA Exeter
CA Shropshire, Shell hits 5
CA Pittsburgh
CA Boston
CA Baltimore
CA Quincy
CA Minneapolis
CA Astoria
CA Chicago
CA Houston
BB Prince of Wales
BB New Jersey
BB Iowa
BB Massachusetts
BB New Mexico
BB California
BB Pennsylvania
BB West Virginia
BB Nevada
BB Warspite

Japanese ground losses:
11975 casualties reported
Guns lost 80

Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 81
Port hits 27
Port fuel hits 14
Port supply hits 26

[rockmedic109]

Who says Nukes are only used in city attacks?
 
I can see the headlines now...
 [left]US NAVY SINKS ISLAND[/left]

[AmiralLaurent]

I estimate too the strength of the Japanese garrison at 1200-1500 AV, with mountain and fort 9 that will give around 4000 AV in defence... so you have to attack with at least 4000 AV of troops to be sure to win quickly... That is 8 reinforced divisions.

The critical factor here will be supplies... Bomb the base with your LBA as much as you can to destroy them. By the way your BB will first battle the CD guns every time then bomb the base and troops if the CD guns were beaten. But during a landing the most fire is sent by the artillery guns in infantry or ART units, that will escape lightly naval bombardments (while support units like base forces and engineers will be nuked). So some days before the landing start to bomb troops with your heavy bombers and CV airmen, it will really help.

By the way taking Guam and Tinian is easier (no mountain here) and it will be a good idea to do it first.

[Titanwarrior89]

Saipan is a hard one.  I went in with Marines(only)(army in reserve) and plenty of support units.  This was after weeks of hitting the island with bombardment.  Still took heavy losses.
 
Also you'll need plenty of air support and plenty of assets moved forward from pearl.  Good luck![X(]

[jumper]

I see the thread is nearly two years old. Anybody knows if he succeeded? [;)]

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: jumper

I see the thread is nearly two years old. Anybody knows if he succeeded? [;)]

Unfortunately Dereck hasn't been around for about a year so I don't think anyone knows

[tanksone]

ORIGINAL: dereck

I know (from landing a recon force) that the following units are located on Saipan:

- Maizuru 2nd SNLF
- Saipan Base Force
- Saipan Coastal Gun Regiment
- Sasebo 7th SNLF
- Yokosuka 1st SNLF
- 3rd South Seas Detachment
- 5th Base Force
- 5th Coastal Gun Regiment
- 5th NLF
- 9th Ind Brigade
- 25th Aviation Unit
- 31st Army HQ
- 43rd Division
- 47th Ind Mixed Brigade
- 51st Construction Battalion
- 55th Naval Guard
- 65th Naval Guard
- 128th IJN Base Force
- 145th IJN Base Force

I'm going to be sending in my V Amphib Corps and some extra artillery:
- V Amphib Corps
- 1st USMC Division
- 2nd USMC Division
- 18th USA Engineer Regiment
- 1st USMC Armored Amphibious Battalion
- V USMC Corps Artillery
- 56th USA Coastal Artillery Regiment
- 14th USMC Defense Battalion

Following units in floating reserve:
- 3rd USMC Division
- 193rd USA Tank Battalion

My question is:

Should I sent in the 3rd USMC Division and 193rd USA Tank Battalion with the initial wave and have the III Corps as my reserve? The III Corps consists of the 25th, 27th and 40th USA Divisions, 144th USA FA Regiment, 251st USA Coast AA Regiment, 2nd USMC Armored Amphibious Battalion and 763rd USA Tank Battalion.

I'm sure I don't have enough landing craft to put all the III Corps in LSTs but between remaining LSTs and APs I should have the tonnage to load them and have them offshore ready to land in case I'd need them.

Thanks.

Hi, any chance you can add another combat engneer regiment or two. I think that would also help alot. Good luck.







doh....2005 post

[Dereck]

Yes I finally succeeded after putting an inordinate number of ground troops on Saipan against Japanese troops who couldn't be destroyed even after 1000:1+ odds.