Invading Japan Questions.

[hbrsvl]

Hi-Playing v1.806, Allies, against AI, 3/43, just got a tiny bit ahead of the 1:1 ratio.

Objective-win the war in 1944, which means a 3:1 ratio.

Background- I hold Guam & Tinian, have landed on Saipan. Up to Hollandia in SoWesPac. Burma Road closed, forces in front of Akyab & in Ledo.

Comments. In a previous game by the end of Jan. '44 I also held Bonins,Iwo, Okinawa, all of Formosa,Manila & most of Philippines, Pescadores & Hong Kong. No progress in SEAC or China. I have a 2.1277 ratio.



Problem-To gain 3:1 is almost impossible with out invading Japan. I need some 24000 more Victory Points to get to 3:1. Only big points left outside Japan are Singapore & Shanghi.

Solution-In present game, ignore Hong Kong, go for Japan, following the proposed "Downfall" program that was proposed in 1945 by the US.

Question-Has anyone Invaded Japan, where & what problems did you have?

Many thanks, Hugh Browne

[wdolson]

You can run up VP points other ways.  Strategic bombing of Japan will run them up.  So will destroying enemy ground units.  Grinding up the Japanese army in China will reap a lot of points.

Bill

[Feinder]

Also, Rangoon is worth quite a bit.  I don't think it's worth that much to the Allies, except that (as I recall), the mulitplier for Japan is x100.  So if you capture Rangoon, it's not so much that you'll GAIN a lot of VPs, except that Japan will LOSE quite a few.  That's the only other base that I saw that you (appearently) don't own, that is worth a lot.  I think Manilla is also worth a lot of VPs (either to Allies or Japan).  There might be some in SRA that are worth more too, I'd check the multiplier for bases like Batavia, Soerbaja, Palembang.  You can also get a fair amount of points by maxxing out Noumea - it's a 100x multiplier for the Allies (so with AF(5) Port(9) = 1900 points).  So if anything you can build up Noumea to max and run some points up there.
 
Killing planes is obviously important.  Just make sure you're killing them at rate of better than 3:1.
 
Killing troops is useful (albeit harder).  You can rack up quite a few points by killing troops, esp on atolls (assuming you win).  As attacker, you won't lose that many troops, if you REALLY over-whelm him.  Disabled squads you'll take, but few actual DEAD - wherease defender will die and thus give points.
 
Beyond that, and it seems from your stage of the war, yes, Strat Bombing of Japan is going to be your best bet.
 
-F-

[AmiralLaurent]

Against the AI it should not be too difficult to seize bases to base B-17, B-24 and so on in range of Japan and then bomb the crap out of the country.

Seizing the two hex island west of Osaka is also a possibility. Gievn teh way the AI behaves I'm sure there are Japanese bases that have close to nil garrison and can be easily stormed. Then Allied units should be able to storm them.

By the way you can also use an Allied CV deathstar to raid Japan. The AI will probably lose hundreds of AC trying to attack them, while your CV airmen can score up to 1000 points a day by bombing strategic targets in big Japanese cities.

[hbrsvl]

Feinder-Many thanks for that. You raise a point I've always wondered about, but didn't know for sure-the multiplier for some bases you mentioned. Some questions on this point.

1. Is there a reference in the manual for this? If so,could you please send it to me? E mail-hbrsvl@cwnet.com.



2. My understanding of what you wrote is that these multipliers can add to Allies score(a bit perhaps), but also Take Away Victory points from the Japanese. Is that correct? Again, if so where do I go to learn more? This really puts a different light on the game.

3. As an aside, what are Strategic Points, how does one side get and/or the other side lose same?

4. Another aside-Is there a published Playing guide to WITP besides some of the ones put out by the community?

Many thanks, Hugh Browne

[hbrsvl]

AmiralLauren-Thanks. Now, you've raised another point I know nothing about.

You mentioned an Allied CV death star. What is it, how does one get it, etc.

Again thanks, Hugh Browne

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: hbrsvl

Feinder-Many thanks for that. You raise a point I've always wondered about, but didn't know for sure-the multiplier for some bases you mentioned. Some questions on this point.

1. Is there a reference in the manual for this? If so,could you please send it to me? E mail-hbrsvl@cwnet.com.



2. My understanding of what you wrote is that these multipliers can add to Allies score(a bit perhaps), but also Take Away Victory points from the Japanese. Is that correct? Again, if so where do I go to learn more? This really puts a different light on the game.

3. As an aside, what are Strategic Points, how does one side get and/or the other side lose same?

4. Another aside-Is there a published Playing guide to WITP besides some of the ones put out by the community?

Many thanks, Hugh Browne

1. Section 16 of the manual.

2. The points are only scored for the base owner.
e.g.
Midway (assume a/f 6 port 1)
Value to Japan: 39(3)
Value to Allies 13(1)
If Japan has control of Midway its worth 39 points in their total. When you recapture it, you gain 13 points AND Japan looses 39 points - A TOTAL SHIFT OF 52 PTS IN YOUR FAVOUR

3. Strategic points are explained in Sect 16 of manual - listed as 'Industry damage'.

4. Only those I've seen on the fan sites such as Spooky's etc

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: hbrsvl

AmiralLauren-Thanks. Now, you've raised another point I know nothing about.

You mentioned an Allied CV death star. What is it, how does one get it, etc.

Again thanks, Hugh Browne

Put your CV together in the same hex, and you have what is called a deathstar in WITP player slang. In 41-42 Japan can do that, in 44-45 Allied will. Given the CAP rule, such TF are almost invulnerable to air attack, especially against the AI that will never concentrate air assets as a player may do. By using CVE and CV together in 1943 the Allied CV fleet may have more than 1000 AC, in 44 more than 2000 and still more in 1945.

By the way on this forum you may also read about "land deathstar": it is referring to the fact to concentrating tens of divisions in one hex and then move it along a railway and crush everything on the way. A great classical of this being what Japan can do in China in stock games.

[Feinder]

The show something like this for a base

Say Noumea is
AF 2(2)
Port 6(6)

Value to Japan = 500(50)
Value to Allies = 1000(100)

What this means is:

If Japan owns the base, the base will add 500 points to her score if fully supplied in present condition.
If Allies own the base, the base will add 1000 points to her score if fully supplied in present condition.

Lets say Japan has captured Noumea from you, early during the game.  Both sides have 5000 vps from other means (sunk ships, planes, whatever).

Japan's VP = 500 (for owning Noumea) + 5000 = 5500
Allies VP = 0 + 5000 = 5000

You decide to, and successfully recapture Noumea.
Japan's VP = 0 (now gets nothing for Noumea) + 5000 = 5000
Allies VP = 1000 (for owning Noumea) + 5000 = 6000

That actually represents a net change of +1500 points (not only did your score go up +1000, but Japan went DOWN by -500).

The way the game score points for bases is

Current AF level x 2 x multiplier (that second number in parenthesis on the VP indicator)
+
Current Port level x 1 x multiplier.

So again, Nomea in Allied hands is:

(AF size x 2 x mulitplier)
2 x 2 x 100 = 400
+
(Port size x 1 x mulitplier)
6 x 1 x 100 = 600
= 1000 vp.

Now, you have to be fully supplied to receive the full vps for a base.  If you're under-supplied, it probably gives you some partial amount of that total.  But one thing can also do is, go around and check which bases are under-supplied.  If they need some, dump some there, and you'll retain full points for the base.

Back to Noumea.

In it's present state (AF=2, Port=6), it's not giving you max VPs.  If you build it up to max
AF=5(2) and Port=9(6) that's

5 x 2 x 100 = 1000
+
9 x 1 x 100 = 900
= 1900 VPs for you (a gain for 900 more than you presently have, just for expanding the base to full potential).

Now, many bases aren't going to give you that sort of pump in VPs (I used Noumea because it's a VP balloon for the Allies).  If the mulitplier of the base is only 1, even if the base is AF=9, Port=9, it's only worth:
9 x 2 x 1 = 18
+
9 x 1 x 1 = 9
=27 not that spectaular for all that work.

Still 27 points is better than none.  And what else are going to do with all those SeaBee Btns = you might as well build up your bases (particularly those with favorable multiplies for for) to max out those points.  Again, they much be fully supplied to give you full points.

But that mulitplier can be very important.  It's not just about how many points you get if you own the base, think also in terms of how many your opponent (or the AI) will LOSE by your capturing the base.

And you get strat points by bombing the industry on the Home Islands (like Heavy industry, resources, engine and plane factories etc).  You get two points per hit as I recall.  But only industry on the Home Islands gives points (you don't get points for bombing Hanoi or wherever). You get more ponts (5?) for each point permanantly destroyed (by firestorms I think).

-F-

[dtravel]

You can't destroy Industry.  Firebombing only damages industry and very, very poorly at that.  You are much better off bombing the industrial types directly.  Mogami ran some tests showing this.  Firestorms levels drop far too fast and do far too little damage to be of any real effect.  It also doesn't help that the Allies receive far fewer B-29s in the game than they did in real life.  (Some B-29 raids were 600+ aircraft.  I'm not even sure the Allies can have 600 B-29s on the map at any one time.)

[greg_slith]

Stay away from Kyushu. There are too many Jap units there. I take Shokku (sp) and use it as the jump off point for invasion of Honshu. Also, this cuts off the inland sea and there are abundant targets at Osaka that can be bombed to get more points. By '45 (when I invaded) most Jap units were hollow shells that didn't put up much of a fight. I bombed the armaments factories for several weeks prior to invasion and with ground attacks elswhere it really ate up the arms that were produced.