SPWAW H2H Mod - The ultimate experience in H2H wargaming...

[Paul Vebber]

Bumpin the ggod stuff to the top!!

[Supervisor]

Well if Paul thinks it's good stuff, lets put a sticky on it for a while!:p

[Panzer Leo]

Thanks Paul, for your kind words...and gmenfan for making this thread a sticky !

I hope noone is hesitating now to at leats give it a try...

...another day, another set of changes, number 4:

• machine guns reevaluated (large caliber MGs have reduced HE)
• new icons for German vehicles (Panther, Elefant, Pz IV...)
• US AT-rifle grenade common for infantry squads
• US infantry platoon and company HQ units
• Bazooka penetration reduced to 105 (that makes for 120-125mm in the game)
• German 37mm AT gun reduced in range (performence esp. APCR was too high at longer ranges)
• availability of Russian ATRs in formations reset (from early '42)
• Russian PTRS AT rifle added
• German MGs raised HE, reduced ammo, reduced men (3) - except for special MG squad in some elite formations, raised to (9)

[Tazman85]

Just wondering if this Mod...Which I will get round to downloading(Oh for DSL)..Is useable in a single player game/campaign?Does it enhance modify standard OOBs or will it screw up playability of such...Thanks

[Svennemir]

I guess it is playable, but the AI won't know how to use e.g. the unarmed bunkers - which might create some trouble.

Most of the units still work the same way, so I guess the problem won't be all that serious.

[Gallo Rojo]

OOB and other changes sounds very interesting ...

But ... what I don't understand is:

What does v.H2H have that make it special for pbem/on line/hot seat play?

Why exactly is v.H2H better than v.7.1 for human vs. human playing?

Is there something in the mech.exe that improves pbem/on line/hot seat performance?

Does it fix a bug or a problem -I read that on v.71 on line play is more unstable than in previous version? (I never have played on line so forgive me if I'm wrong about that)

Any improvement in the VCR?



Cheers
Gallo

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Tazman85
Just wondering if this Mod...Which I will get round to downloading(Oh for DSL)..Is useable in a single player game/campaign?Does it enhance modify standard OOBs or will it screw up playability of such...Thanks

Svennemir said almost everything on this...units like the bunkers, ammo boxes and the Field Command Posts might be used wrong by the AI.
Otherwise there shouldn't be any problems.
If you play scenarios, that were made for H2H (or even whole campaigns), there won't be any problems at all in single player mode...

The MC Watchtower should be playable with H2H
Changes to the Marines I made are not likely to cause problems.
MCs with German troops are not usable with H2H OOBs.

What does v.H2H have that make it special for pbem/on line/hot seat play?

Why exactly is v.H2H better than v.7.1 for human vs. human playing?

Is there something in the mech.exe that improves pbem/on line/hot seat performance?

Does it fix a bug or a problem -I read that on v.71 on line play is more unstable than in previous version? (I never have played on line so forgive me if I'm wrong about that)

Any improvement in the VCR?

There're no bugfixes or coding changes to the mech.exe in H2H. The only changes to the mech.exe are some default values for exp/mor and such...
The reason, why I called it H2H is simply, because I added units, that are only usable by human players.
Also I put in a lot of small things (like some different prices to add national advantages/disadvantages), the AI cannot make use of.
One very important, tactical feature is, that you can build up stronger defensive positions now.
You have Ammo Boxes, Personnel Shelters and most important the Field CPs.
All this used by a player with a human brain really stiffens up your defense and adds a lot of fun to the game.
Many Players complained about the excessive use of Arty, that disrupts game play.
The Field CPs don't save you from taking casualties, but your troops will stay in the trenches and fight, when the enemy charges...a big difference...(like the normal Command Post, Field CPs lower suppression within 6 hexes).
Also, that I moved many Luftwaffe units to the Norway OOB, to get room for German infantry units is something only a human player can use...they are regular and quite common units and noone should hesitate to use them...

This and many other small things make this a module, that was intended for H2H play, but it does not disrupt any other sort of play like single games.

hope that helps...

[Panzer Leo]

Some additional things, you should know:

H2H resets your preferences. It is recommended to play H2H with 130% inf toughness and 130% Arty vs Soft.

If the inf toughness is not set to 130%, esp. multibarrelled AA guns will cause too much casualties...
The Arty should be set to 130%, to compensate the inf toughness and keep the good casualty results from the regular v7.1


It might be quite often, that you have two tanks, that have the same name and values, but a different pricing and rarity (some AT-guns also).
The more expensive one is always that same type of tank with APCR ammo.

Most Inf-AT rockets are now usable against infantry. To avoid the shots from being "drained" by enemy infantry (esp. in the case of PzFausts), turn the weapon "off" in the unit menue.
This unit will still use the rockets to make assaults, but will not fire at infantry targets.

have fun...

[Svennemir]

Is the H2H mech.exe identical to the 7.1 mech.exe in ALL other aspects than def. training values?

I have seen that units with heavy caliber rounds like ISU-152, sIG33 etc. don't seem to be quite so lethal anymore.

Does this have to do with the 130%/130%?

This change in rating also seems to make infantry less vulnerable to other infantry weapons. Especially SMGs seem to have suffered.

Please note that this comment is based on my experiences so far, and those are not yet many!

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Svennemir
Is the H2H mech.exe identical to the 7.1 mech.exe in ALL other aspects than def. training values?

I have seen that units with heavy caliber rounds like ISU-152, sIG33 etc. don't seem to be quite so lethal anymore.

Does this have to do with the 130%/130%?

This change in rating also seems to make infantry less vulnerable to other infantry weapons. Especially SMGs seem to have suffered.

Please note that this comment is based on my experiences so far, and those are not yet many!

Yes, it is completely identical with v7.1 in all other aspects.
That some weapons have lost a bit lethality is indeed because of the 130% inf toughness. If you restore it to 100%, you will have the same results as in v7.1.
In my opinion one problem with v7.1 is, that with the new splash damage weapons with higher HE kill became more lethal. That works excellent for indirect Arty fire, but weapons starting at the level of better machine guns were causing also additional damage.
Before they felt very good to me in the amount of damage they were inflicting on infantry, but with the new splash, they tend to be overpowered.
You can try it out and test a MG42 with 100% toughness and will see, that it becomes very deadly (too deadly).
If you then test the 20mm FlaKVierling, you will see it is almost ever a one shot squad disintegrator...

So I do only recommend to play at 130% inf toughness, but you can change it to whatever feels realistic for you...it then will be exactly the v7.1 results, you're used to...

[Svennemir]

That's okay - no problem. I might even prefer 130%, having played a bit more (against the AI, and that works fine.)

[Svennemir]

If I read the numbers correctly these changes penalize direct fire but not splash damage.

This means weapons like rifles and SMGs that rely on direct hits (have only WARHEAD value of 1 meaning very low splash) will be penalized in comparison with high-splash weapons.

So the 130%/130% adjustment will primarily, if I'm correct, affect infantry weapons - but not heavy IGs to the same degree.

The vierlings will, with a WARHEAD value of 2, receive quite an impact this way, but still rifles and SMGs will suffer more.

These are just observations, comments or corrections are welcome. I hope this is not annoying?

[RockinHarry]

...downloading it now! (sigh..:rolleyes: ISDN )

________
Harry

[Mark Ezra]

Go it dl'd and started a PBEM . So far very smooth. Got to say Thanks... The GMC M3 75mm is fixed and has a proper HE/AP load. The OOB's seem to play well.

[JimPY]

I am playing the H2H Task Force Wilder scenario. I have my infantry toughness preference set to 170 and the artillery v. soft to 150. I notice that the German 60/100 panzerfaust is decimating my infantry. Since this is the first SP that I have played in which the panzerfaust could be used against infantry, I am curious if this weapon was, or could be used, against infantry? And was it this powerful? When I played the Bloody River scenario, I noticed that the Japanese 50mm seemed more deadly than usual. Are these weapons affected by the artillery v. soft setting? Your assistance is appreciated. So far I like the sounds and feel of H2H.

[Drex]

I'm downloaded and ready for some opponents. I hear of a new US OOB83, is this a part of the MOD also?

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Svennemir
I hope this is not annoying?

How could it be ? You're playing H2H and you're making your own thoughts on it...that's all I asked for...
Your observations should be about right, how things come out with these settings...

I am playing the H2H Task Force Wilder scenario. I have my infantry toughness preference set to 170 and the artillery v. soft to 150. I notice that the German 60/100 panzerfaust is decimating my infantry. Since this is the first SP that I have played in which the panzerfaust could be used against infantry, I am curious if this weapon was, or could be used, against infantry? And was it this powerful? When I played the Bloody River scenario, I noticed that the Japanese 50mm seemed more deadly than usual. Are these weapons affected by the artillery v. soft setting? Your assistance is appreciated. So far I like the sounds and feel of H2H.

As both weapons are direct fired, I don't think the Arty setting is causing this.
It might be, that the new v7.1 splash damage could be the reason.
When the inf toughness is at 170%, it becomes quite hard to achieve direct kills. It's possible, that the splash casualties are not affected the same way and they stayed about the same or at least do not get lowered the same way...this would cause the impression, that large warhead weapons do not suffer that much from 170%...but I'm not sure...
So it is possible, that the 170% inf toughness distorts the usual relation of casualties done by direct fire with small warhead weapons and the large ones...

In general, it was possible and quite often done, to fire with PzFausts, PzSchrecks, Bazookas or even PIATs at infantry.
Normally you would do this, when the infantry is in some sort of cover and it's actually a obstacle, you're aiming at to hit the nearby infantry (like a house or dense woods).
The point, that HEAT rounds cannot cause casualties, because the explosion is directed to a little point, to achieve penetration, is a bit misleading.
It is still quite some explosives envolved, that cause the typical blast effects. What is missing, is the extra amount of material to scatter around like in normal HE grenades, to be really lethal.
The HEAT roundsI fired, could be felt up to 300m away...should be enough to scare one when standing only 10m away
In the game the highest casualties I saw done by a PzFaust
was 2, I think. They mainly cause, what they were used for...suppression...
Th use of these weapons is again a feature, best handled by human players.
For the PzFaust, there're 3HE and 2AP shots with full ammo on.
The HE rounds in the case of the PzFaust and the PzSchreck can be fired at tanks also, so you wouldn't waste them against infantry, when tanks are around...
The AI is now making an excessive use of it, a smarter player would never do...
In history, the Russian might have been the ones who used it the most against infantry. Due to the enormeous numbers of PzFausts produced and it's easy handling, the Russians fired most captured PzFausts in street fighting against infantry, with quite some success (and they could do this, because they did not have to save them for use against German tanks...were there's no tank, you can't fire at it...)

I'm downloaded and ready for some opponents. I hear of a new US OOB83, is this a part of the MOD also?

Indirectly...many, if not the most changes were made in the H2H OOB aswell. I took the comments from Brian Price, Overlord, AmmoSgt and others from their posts and worked them in.
The result is not exactly the same, but I think pretty close, with some additional stuff I put in from my own thoughts...

[El Vito]

I thought I posted this earlier but I guess not.
Currently have a game of H2H going right now. Me as the Germans against a Soviet opponent. We started before I read these posts so we turned from 130% to 100%. Everything seems fine (although no vierlings in this battle). I have to say the German OOB's are excellent (even in German). The sounds and action I also like. Haven't played any other country yet. I do have a couple observations, one being that the platoon doesn't highlight on the battle screen when you click on a unit. It does on the overview map though. And the platoon leader doesn't get the parenthesis around the plus sign. I can live with it though, just have to pay a little more attention to detail.
I'm not sure how the munitions get used, are they like movable ammo dumps and how much do the munitions resupply? is it more than ammo carriers? Or are the munitions to be used in the new defensive positions? Maybe someone could give me some insight into this. Great game though, I will keep H2H and 7.1 (with the Bulgarian and US Engineer fix) installed separately so I dont have to switch OOB's over to be able to play both versions.

[JimPY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo





"When the inf toughness is at 170%, it becomes quite hard to achieve direct kills. It's possible, that the splash casualties are not affected the same way and they stayed about the same or at least do not get lowered the same way...this would cause the impression, that large warhead weapons do not suffer that much from 170%...but I'm not sure...
So it is possible, that the 170% inf toughness distorts the usual relation of casualties done by direct fire with small warhead weapons and the large ones..."

I have always thought that in SP1 and future WW2 SP's too many casualties were caused by direct fire as opposed to artillery and grenades. I find that infantry toughness at 170 and artillery v. soft at 150 in v7.1 addresses this issue. Before v7.1 I had both set at 200, but in 7.1 that goes too far. However, the H2H 60/100 panzerfaust was too lethal to infantry, so I reduced its HE kill from 11 to 9. I reduced the bazooka to 5 from 7. Both seem more realistic now.

[RockinHarry]

excellent work Joerg....hey that rhymes!

Seriously...I burned the unzipped files on CD and managed (on home PC) to put the new stuff in seperate alternate folders, so no need for me to have two (or more) complete installs of SPWAW on the hard disk. A good idea probably would be to include in your mod text file a list of the to be changed/updated files in the various folders to ease file copy and backupping?

All the B/W photos are excellent and add much to the feel of the units! I also like the idea putting the uncommon stuff from the german OOB to the Czech OOB. Or does anybody know when the germans used their big vessels for ground support other than Westerplatte/Poland? Norway? Else?

Nebelwerfers41 and 42: Good two have them right now, but why do they have that much ammo? Do you know of high reload rates and wanted to portray this? Have some good online sources for me?

Volkssturm: Nice addition, but in my opinion bit too overpowered! The poor Volkssturm (armed german civilians in fact) seldomly had good or enough weapons available, not to speak of appropriate ammo. From what I know from various sources and also my experience as "relic hunter", these guys mostly were equipped with foreign weaponry like french 8mmLebel rifle or MosinNagant. These and some Panzerfausts should be more accurate weaponry for Volkssturm units. Giving them Panzerschreck, I think is not quite credible. It´s not that easy to operate as the Panzerfaust and I can´t think of armed civilan operating Panzerschrecks properly! (They´ll probably kill themselves )

Gebirgsjägers with special forces attributes is good idea, when used accordingly (in mountainous terrain). Ski capability fits nicely to the new ski jaegers.

Shelters is also a nice idea and shapes look very good.

Hope I´ll find time soon to really play with H2H, but I definitely will do oncoming scenario works with H2H files as alternative, maybe even exclusively.

BTW: What time stamp had your modified V7.1 mech.exe before? I found the latest V7.1 mech.exe (from latest patch) satisfactory concerning infantry casulaties and splash damage.

___________
Harry