how does flak attack exactly?

[schury]

i have 4 flaks and 1 fighter, 2 HB, 1TB in west germany the first turn, then france attack me by 1fighter and 1 TB, and i got my fighter and 1 HB damaged?! i found only one Flak attacked?[:@]
can anyone tell me how flak works......[&o]

[WanderingHead]

Each individual air units will only be fired upon by one ground unit, no matter how many ground units there are (and no matter how many of them are flak). The ground units with the anti-air attack value will select targets first.

A flak may target 2 air units, but only if neither air unit has been targeted by another ground unit.

In your case, it sounds like the defending fighter eliminated the attacking fighter. This left only one enemy air unit (the tac) which was then fired upon once by a flak.

[schury]

ok, seems flak is not that useful against lots of plane come one by one..........

[Avatar47]

Well, if you have 2 flak in one region, then there's a +2 bonus (+4 actually, cuz it's x2) if you have more flak than attacking air. So you can prevent air from attacking one at a time. In your specific case, the Fighter wasn't fired on by the Flak because it was already damaged in Air-to-Air against your Fighter unit, and Flak can never destroy air, only damage it. If you only have 1 flak in a region, and I attack with 3 aircraft, then only 2 (first bombers) will be attacked, and the 3rd can be attacked by another unit there (will presumably lower AA rating), or not at all. Therefore it is technically better to attack a region with many aircraft if you outnumber his flak by x2, because some won't be fired upon.

[schury]

+2 bonus seems to be useless, unless your evasion is 1, then it may make sence.[:(]
poor germany[:o]

[Uncle_Joe]

The +2 bonus is not useless at all. And as stated, its actually +4. It might not shoot down planes, but it does interfere with their attack runs. True, once enemy planes start hitting the really high evasions, the flak starts to lose its lustre, but really, how effective was flak against planes like B29s?
 
Flak is not a replacement for Fighters. But they make a nice compliment to them. And unlike Fighters, Flak cant be easily 'soaked off' by opposing Fighters letting the bombers come in 'for free'. Try stacking up 3-4 Flak in an area and if the enemy doesnt have super high-tech bombers, he likely wont do too terribly much on his attacks.

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe
The +2 bonus is not useless at all. And as stated, its actually +4. It might not shoot down planes, but it does interfere with their attack runs. True, once enemy planes start hitting the really high evasions, the flak starts to lose its lustre, but really, how effective was flak against planes like B29s?

Flak is not a replacement for Fighters. But they make a nice compliment to them. And unlike Fighters, Flak cant be easily 'soaked off' by opposing Fighters letting the bombers come in 'for free'. Try stacking up 3-4 Flak in an area and if the enemy doesnt have super high-tech bombers, he likely wont do too terribly much on his attacks.

He he, you know what I think .

Actually, what would be cool would be if flak fired before air-to-air, and hence the suppression from flak could be considered to include effects such as RADAR early warning. Then it would actually complement fighters. As it is, it doesn't really "complement" fighters IMO.

The usual thing with suppression, it can be useful if it fires first, but when it fires last it has limited utility unless the targeted unit happens to roll that dreaded '1'. Surface to air fires after air to air, so the suppression effect itself is not all that great (it is true that it also help reduce the toll taken from bombardment, but only for very low air Ground Attack values, which is mostly relevant for Japan).

[Avatar47]

Flak with upped Land and AA attack also make great complements to beach defenses, the more the merrier. And to repeat Uncle Joe, Flak makes air attacks simply less effective. Germany should think about building a lot more of these instead of fighters later on, because as Uncle Joe said, they don't get soaked off like fighters, which means less production + manpower points lost.

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: schury
+2 bonus seems to be useless, unless your evasion is 1, then it may make sence.[:(]
poor germany[:o]

My advice is, NEVER buy flak unless you are China. Fighters defend, and allow you take the offense.

It is true that Flak, by surviving better, is better if you have completely lost air-superiority, but it is a better strategy to not lose air superiority.

Now, if flak truly complemented fighters, that would be a different story.

** edit ** OK, I'll immediately concede some possible late game utility for Germany. I just prefer not to plan on losing .... also, because of the suppression rules, I happen to think that the better way to defend your artillery is to buy a lot of artillery, to disperse the suppression points. So I still don't buy flak...

[Avatar47]

Yes, assuming Germany does lose air superiority later in the game, it should concentrate more prod on flak. I do have to say that I see many Axis players build too many fighters late in the game, when the manpower is better spent on a better all-around unit like flak.

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Avatar47
Yes, assuming Germany does lose air superiority later in the game, it should concentrate more prod on flak. I do have to say that I see many Axis players build too many fighters late in the game, when the manpower is better spent on a better all-around unit like flak.

Agree that sacrificial fighters in the late game is not good.

But in general I would still rather have 2 artillery in a coastal region than 1 art+1flak, and I'd rather have 3 art than 2art+1flak. Dispersing the suppression you receive is _more_ effective than suppressing the bombers first. Maybe just put a single flak there so you discourage multiple tiny bombing runs.

[schury]

no. i don't agree with you. i think in the early time, no HR should be used as fighters in the west, or die as Germany! as to the coast, i usually have 2 ART and two flaks, if Allies wanna break, they really need to pay for it

[balto]

Hey, this is a great thread.  Would some of the smart guys comment on this some more?  Thanks.