Update V

[Hard Sarge]

the Spit I and IIs are on the way out, while the V is being built, but I gave a bit of a stockpile so they will not bleed themselfs out

some new models added

and as you can see, the CW is getting into gear to help out the motherland (and some friends are comeing in)

[Hard Sarge]

41 is looking like a good year to die

[Hard Sarge]

which just in case, I am still going though units to check plane type and group where I can, so not everything is in stone yet
 
(609 should have Spit Vs as of the start of the 41 battle, not the IAs they are showing now)
 
 

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

and as you can see, the CW is getting into gear to help out the motherland (and some friends are coming in)

Sarge,

Commonwealth Squadrons from this period were designated using the format "No. 452 Squadron RAAF". Same format for the Canadians, New Zealanders, etc

"452 Squadron RAAF" would probably also be acceptable for this game but I think the "452 RAAF Squadron" is too unhistorical to be used.

Otherwise this is lookin' real good. I can't wait.

[Hard Sarge]

hmmmmm
 
I can see some of that, but it is odd
 
as it is also listed as no. 153 Squadron RAF
 
so that is screwy
 
also, can be listed as no. 312 (Czech) Squadron RAF
 
plus it don't really make sense for the Eagle Squadrons
 
which, in the long run, the real issue, I running out of lettering slots for unit names
 
 

[von Shagmeister]

In British literature RAF Sqns aren't normally suffixed with RAF ie 41 Sqn not 41 Sqn RAF. However in literature produced out of the UK (say Canada) RAF Sqns are usually suffixed to differentiate between that nations own Air Force units ie 111 Sqn RAF to differentiate between 111 Sqn RCAF
 
CW Sqns are suffixed with the Air Force they originated from ie 2 Sqn SAAF or 401 Sqn RCAF
 
Sqns manned by other nationalities but under RAF operational control have the nationality in brackets ie 331 (Norwegian) Sqn or 302 (Polish) Sqn. Eagle Sqns were an exception, however being named Sqns they sometimes appear with their name but as with all named Sqns often the names are dropped.

[Hard Sarge]

names for BoB have been changed

[Hard Sarge]

well, I got to say, I am starting to like the OOB for BoB41, for a what if, I think we got a pretty good detailed OOB
 
LOL feels like a song
 
Canes and Hawks and Winds oh my
 
I beefed up the LW pretty good, so I had to go and make sure the GB had enough to defend themselfs, this may be a what if, but I think it is going to be a fun one

[Hertston]

What von Shagmeister says, with the addition that the "no." is not used by the RAF. The screenies have it right with the exception that, as has been said, it should be 406 Squadron RCAF, not 406 RCAF squadron.

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

What von Shagmeister says, with the addition that the "no." is not used by the RAF. The screenies have it right with the exception that, as has been said, it should be 406 Squadron RCAF, not 406 RCAF squadron.

I'm afraid that I will have to respectfully disagree that the prefix 'No.' was not used in contemporary documents. The main aim of this was to reinforce that units were designated 'Number 406 Squadron', NOT the '406th Squadron' and was used at the Wing level as well. Have a look at the designations in my scan below from the Australian Official Histories (which quote the original documents).

By the way, the Quote below is from page 121 of Chapter 5 of Volume 3 of the Air Series and can be found on-line at the Australian War Memorial's Official Histories – Second World War.

However, I do agree in the game context, it is much less screen clutter if the 'No.' prefix is dropped and it does not detract from the historical atmosphere.

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

Sqns manned by other nationalities but under RAF operational control have the nationality in brackets ie 331 (Norwegian) Sqn or 302 (Polish) Sqn.

As with every rule, there are two exceptions. The 400 series Article XV (Empire Air Training Scheme) Squadrons were paid for and were under the operational control of the RAF. However, their designations were not so straight forward as Headquarters Middle East found out when they issued Administration Instruction (External) No. 191, which ran:



To keep this in context, No. 3 Squadron RAAF belonged to the RAAF proper and was paid for by the Commonwealth of Australia despite being designated the same as and operating along side Nos. 450 and 451 Squadron RAAF in the Middle East.

There is quite an involved discussion on how this came about in the first volume of the Air Series in the Official Histories referenced above.

[Hard Sarge]

okay, just to make sure, I did say I made the changes for BoB41
 
one hassle I have, is I do not have the slot range to use all of the names the way I would really like to, so with in reason, I will try to do it, as it was done, but at times, I am going to have to shorter, or change it, so the player can understand what we got (most times this is not really going to need to be done, but)
 
soooo
 
in BoB41 we have
 
452 Squadron RAAF
133 Eagle Squadron
 
(I have not gotten to the 300's yet)
 
 

[Reg]

Sarge,

I for one are very happy with what you have done so far and I'm sure everyone else is too. That format above definitely looks like the way to go. You are doing a fantastic job with trying to make sense of that mess called real life within the constaints you have.

I just brought up that info as you may not have been aware of it. The next few pages of that history showed that not a few of the people involved didn't have much of an idea either. [X(]

Lookin' good,

[Hard Sarge]

got a hassle with this one

No. 331 (Norwegian) Squadron RAF

now, I can drop the No. and the RAF

but I not got room for the ( ) so any "named" units I have to drop that

but I do not have room for Norwegian, which for the Czech that is okay to cut it down that way, but how do you cut down Norwegain ?

331 Norway Squadron, just does not look right to me

310 Czech Squadron and 303 Polish Squadron look and feel right

in BTR we had 331 NAF Squadron ?

[Hard Sarge]

Well

I can't do this for all units, but here is one of the IT Gruppos for BoB41

(which to be honest, I should be able to do this for about 4 of the units, the rest will be pretty hit or miss or purely AI pilots)

[jcjordan]

Just putting something out there if you've not thought about it & crossed it off your list but what about using a letter after the unit number - 331(N) Sqdn for 331 Norwegian, may not be historical but it's something. Even the NAF & such from BTR would throw me sometimes but guess nothing will be totally accurate.

[tblersch]

You could always just use the 3-letter country code: NOR, POL, CZE, ZAF (South Africa, which would look a little weird, yes...)

Of course, those are modern country codes...and you'd have to make one up for the Free French (FFE, maybe)...but like jcjordan said, nothing's going to be totally accurate. Using the official country codes would at least have the advantage of being clear (331 NOR Squadron is pretty unambiguous) and consistent, with the disadvantage of looking pretty damn stupid, frankly...


...yeah, I know. It's my idea. It still looks stupid. Never mind...

[Hard Sarge]

well, the Czech and Polish work, the Dutch, for the French we used the unit names with Fr in front of it
 
it is just for the Norwegian, you cut it down to Norweg, don't look right, and Norway don't really look right either
 
I might have to go with NAF

[Ursa MAior]

Can we have a screenshot of actual combat?

Or an overview map?

Edit
Sorry just saw the AAR. Digging into it.

[menik]

Am I in time? I have about the norvegian
http://www.europeanaf.org/history/331.htm
Official name was 331FN
I hope this can help

marco

> it is just for the Norwegian, you cut it down to Norweg, don't look > right, and Norway don't really look right either

.....
Disse il Cretese: "Tutti i Cretesi mentono"

[Hard Sarge]

FN is the Unit code, not the Squadron name

the unit code in the 56th 3 squadrons were HV, LM and UN followed by the plane letter

I think NAF should tell the story ?