Replacement pilots experience change

[Elladan]

Is the experience of replacement pilots (not reinforcements) changing as the game progresses? I remember there was a disagreement on this some time ago, was a consensus achieved? I'm asking because I would like to start a new game using RHS mod, but don't want to find myself with exp 45 USN pilots in 1945 facing hordes of Japanese exp 70 ones.

[el cid again]

Yes it does. We can set INITIAL experience ONLY. A built in table takes effect as time passes. It is in the WITP Manual.
If there was disagreement, it was because someone has not read the manual.

[Elladan]

The manual has a table for reinforcement pilots experience, not replacements. Or at least it doesn't say it is for the latter too. I made a short test and replacement experience doesn't change between 1941 and 1942. Hasn't tested it further, but obviously someone must have played it to 1/1/43? 

[Mike Solli]

I am into 1943 and can confirm that the pilot replacement average experience doesn't change.  It remains at the experience level +9.  If you exaust the pilot pool and draw pilots, you'll get an experience level of 1/2 the experience level +9.

[Elladan]

That would confirm my doubts. If it is like that, and I haven't seen any proof it isn't, there is probably no point in playing a longer game in RHS as I can't reasonably hope to be able to defeat Japanese, who have both quantity and quality supremacy in air for the whole war. I'm talking about pbem of course, against AI it might be even interesting to give them some edge. 

[Mike Solli]

Keep in mind that this is only for replacement pilots.  The pilots that come with reinforcement daitai and chutai continually decline throughout the war.  By 1944 the reinforcement experience levels for the Japanese are 50 for the IJAAF and 45 for the IJNAF, vs. 75 for the US Navy, 65 for the US Army and Marines.   The Japanese get only a handful of replacement pilots each month.

[Elladan]

I know Mike that's replacements only. The problem is Japanese in RHS have 150 IJA exp 60 pilots and 216 IJN exp 70. No way you can kill them fast enough.

[el cid again]

Unless I am confused, the table in the manual is for replacements - it is hard code - and we cannot change it.
The table in the Scenario editor is for initial replacements - and we can change that one.

[Elladan]

from manual p.196

15.2.3 Average Pilot Experience by Nationality
When new units arrive as reinforcements, they will generally arrive with pilots that have
experience levels based on their nationality and the year of arrival. This is not always true as
some air groups have been given unusual experience ratings or contain a high proportion of
“historical” pilots that were of extraordinary skill. Normal units will enter with pilot experience set
near to the levels in the following table.

So not a single word about replacements. But tests show it doesn't change. At least that's what I know at the moment, if anybody has different results please let us know.

[spence]

Well in 1942 USN pilots as reinforcements are supposed to have 65 exp but on the 3 CVEs I've received they are all (fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber pilots) around 40 exp. Seems pretty bogus to me. Beaucoup pilots in the pool.

[Elladan]

They might be historical pilots thus different ratings. You can code the experience of any squadron.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

from manual p.196

15.2.3 Average Pilot Experience by Nationality
When new units arrive as reinforcements, they will generally arrive with pilots that have
experience levels based on their nationality and the year of arrival. This is not always true as
some air groups have been given unusual experience ratings or contain a high proportion of
“historical” pilots that were of extraordinary skill. Normal units will enter with pilot experience set
near to the levels in the following table.

So not a single word about replacements. But tests show it doesn't change. At least that's what I know at the moment, if anybody has different results please let us know.

You are reading too narrowly. This was not written by lawyers. It is trying to tell you about replacements as well as reinforcements (I think). But note the part that you can change reinforcements at the unit level - and sometimes we do just that. RHS has a table for this purpose - and we divate from it for cause in specific cases as well.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

They might be historical pilots thus different ratings. You can code the experience of any squadron.

Just so. And if you play RHS you will find "boucoup" coded very low - because they were very green.
But you also will find cases we went the other way. There is a reason USMC started out squadrons on horrible planes - they wanted to give them experience BEFORE sending them to war! The war strained the training organizations - and you really are better off with experienced pilots - which you don't get from green units. But SOMETIMES things were done - in the case of Japan see Genda's Flying Circus. [This term - once used for an aerobatic team pre war - was also used for a fighter group late in the war - one that did spectacularly well - because they raided all units for experienced pilots]

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Elladan

from manual p.196

15.2.3 Average Pilot Experience by Nationality
When new units arrive as reinforcements, they will generally arrive with pilots that have
experience levels based on their nationality and the year of arrival. This is not always true as
some air groups have been given unusual experience ratings or contain a high proportion of
“historical” pilots that were of extraordinary skill. Normal units will enter with pilot experience set
near to the levels in the following table.

So not a single word about replacements. But tests show it doesn't change. At least that's what I know at the moment, if anybody has different results please let us know.

You are reading too narrowly. This was not written by lawyers. It is trying to tell you about replacements as well as reinforcements (I think). But note the part that you can change reinforcements at the unit level - and sometimes we do just that. RHS has a table for this purpose - and we divate from it for cause in specific cases as well.

IMHO the table that Elladan refers to is for reinforcements only. Groups that do not start on the board at the beginning of the game will arrive with an average experience based on the table on page 15.2.3 of the manual.

Pilot replacements that you use the "Get Pilots" button are based on how the pilot information was set up for the scenario. You can use the Scenario Editor to change them prior to starting the game. Currently, in RHS Scenario 60 the IJA get 150 Replacement pilots per month with a rating of 60 +/- 9. The figures for the IJN pilots are 216 at experience of 75 +/- 9. The experience rate of a pilot inexcess of the monthly rate is a rating of 30 +/- 9 for the IJA and 35 +/- 0 for the IJN. This starts when the IJA uses replacement pilot 151 and the IJN with replacement pilot 217. These values continue throughout the war. It does not change as the war progresses.

The values for the USA are 200 at 45 +/- 9 and begining with number 201 23 +/- 9.
The values for the USN are 400 at 40 +/- 9 and begining with number 401 20 +/- 9.
The values for the USMC are 100 at 45 +/- 9 and begining with number 101 23 +/- 9.

[Elladan]

Exactly as Herrbear said. I think I might just edit replacements experience to make it more playable. What do you think it should be? Given that it has to cover the whole war period.

[tanjman]

Elladan,

I think the table in the manual is only used when zero is placed in the experience field (means it uses the default value from the table) of the reinforcement air group. I think it may also apply to any reinforcement pilots in the database whose experience is set at zero.

From the editor manual (page 26 & 27):
3.5.1 Air Groups General Attributes
Experience is the average overall experience of the Air Group‘s pilots (not counting any historical pilots that are in the database attached to the unit. This should be between 0 and 99. If a 0 is entered, the pilots will assume the standard experience for a ship given the nationality and time of arrival.

See also section 3.5.1.1 of the editor manual.

From section 4.1.2 of the editor manual (pages 45 & 46):

Starting Experience is the starting base experience level of the replacement pilots (this is modified by a random factor to derive a specific pilot). Note that a rating of 50-60 is a thoroughly trained pilot with many months of flight time, but no combat experience. A rating of 25-30 is a hastily trained pilot, and a rating of 0 is a pilot in name only. Altering this number can have dramatic effects on the air battles in the scenario.

[Nikademus]

remember too, that if pilots are assigned to the reinforcement squadron in question (from the historical pilot pool file wpp.pws), their individual exp values will override the exp value set for the squadron or the national default value.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

Exactly as Herrbear said. I think I might just edit replacements experience to make it more playable. What do you think it should be? Given that it has to cover the whole war period.

In this context, what does "more playable" mean?

And, in general, is not "playable" a contradiction of "historically correct" when dealing with simulation?

Finally - the last question is the kicker: there is no way to answer it accurately at all. You are supposed to come up with one value good for an entire branch for the entire war? You are supposed to come up with even one value correct at one time for any service? This is an intangible - difficult to measure - and difficult to understand the meaning of whatever we say because we cannot see how it is used. And whatever the value, it is dynamic - not fixed.

My advice is to remember everyone starts the game at the beginning, almost no one ever gets to the end of the war. So IF you have a sense of what the values should be early - use that. That is the RHS philosophy in this matter. If you cannot simulate the beginning of the war correctly - you have no idea what the later phases will look like in any case.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

remember too, that if pilots are assigned to the reinforcement squadron in question (from the historical pilot pool file wpp.pws), their individual exp values will override the exp value set for the squadron or the national default value.

Good point - as was the one immediately above it. In short - we are not exactly in control whatever we do. When you are not in control, it is not worth a lot of energy trying to find a "perfect" answer. Even if there is one - which in this case I doubt.

[Nikademus]

It can be controlled. It just requires more work.