Submarines in CAW

[downtown]

I just played my first scenario in CAW as US. Wake Island. I wanted to
throw all the carriers into the fray at the same time. Flew missions at the
first sightings just to see how the game handled. Got slaughtered.
However, for at least half a day, one of my submarine icons was right next
to a Japanese carrier TF. It did not seem to have taken any action against
them, and it seemed to me that it would have been easy for the sub to at least
take a shot at one of the carriers. I noticed the manual says the player
has no control over the subs, but under what circumstances could we expect a
sub to take a shot at the enemy. My understanding is they should be able to
launch an attack at some point, otherwise, why would the developer make sure
to let the player know the torpedo loads of the subs. Otherwise, I am
looking forward to getting slaughtered a few more times so I can get a
better understanding of how this game plays.

[LarryP]

I wish we could control the sub like we can the other Task Groups. I have seen torpedoes hit my ships and blow them up and I don't know where they came from as I was not close enough for surface battle. Maybe a sub from the Japs?! One time I saw three torpedoes hit the same ship at the same time. Boy that made me mad. [:@]

[CTB123]

Subs can and will attack.  They can also provide sighting information.

Subs acted independently during the war.  They did not keep in constant contact with HQ.  As your historical counterpart did not have any control over subs, at least once the battle started, you don't either in Carriers at War.

Tony

[CJMello63]

I have had subs spot and attack although I have sen them spot more often.

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: downtown

I just played my first scenario in CAW as US. Wake Island. I wanted to
throw all the carriers into the fray at the same time. Flew missions at the
first sightings just to see how the game handled. Got slaughtered.
However, for at least half a day, one of my submarine icons was right next
to a Japanese carrier TF. It did not seem to have taken any action against
them, and it seemed to me that it would have been easy for the sub to at least
take a shot at one of the carriers. I noticed the manual says the player
has no control over the subs, but under what circumstances could we expect a
sub to take a shot at the enemy. My understanding is they should be able to
launch an attack at some point, otherwise, why would the developer make sure
to let the player know the torpedo loads of the subs. Otherwise, I am
looking forward to getting slaughtered a few more times so I can get a
better understanding of how this game plays.

WWII submarines had to be pretty lucky and be in almost exactly the right position to be able to attack warships that are behaving correctly, that is steaming 20 kts or faster, using proper zig-zags and with appropriate ASW escorts. Just being in the same hex, which is after all an area of hundreds of square nms is not nearly good enough.

Submarines are much, much better at sinking slow moving merchant ships, especially if they aren't well escorted, or picking off wounded warships which are moving slowly.

We don't let users control their submarines, otherwise all subs would abandon their assigned patrol zones and form completely ahistorical wolf-packs, whose location would be based on gamer's almost infallible hindsight, an option not available to their historical counterparts.

Gregor

[blastpop]

ORIGINAL: CTB123

Subs can and will attack. They can also provide sighting information.

Subs acted independently during the war. They did not keep in constant contact with HQ. As your historical counterpart did not have any control over subs, at least once the battle started, you don't either in Carriers at War.

Tony

Actually the torpedos were horrible during the period. the best use of the subs is for scouting since its unlikely than can hit things that swim faster than a fish early in the war.

[bradfordkay]

Hitting the target wasn't necessarily the problem in the early war... it was getting the torpedo to explode (at least for the US subs)!

[blastpop]

They had a problem hitting too. They weren't going to the proper depth and the ordinance dept didn't believe the sub commanders.

[Gregor_SSG]

It took until Autumn 1942 before US torpedoes ran at their indicated depth, before that they ran 10 feet deeper than their setting.

Even when that was fixed, their magnetic detonator was hypersensitive, exploding far too early. The contact detonator was also badly flawed, and it took until October 1943 for this to be officially recognised and fixed. (From 'Stealth at Sea: The History of the Submarine' by Dan Van Der Wat, one of my favorite historians).

In the meantime, the shore based bureaucrats effectively accused sub captains who complained about dud torpedoes of cowardice, rather than admitting their own negligence.

Still I'm sure that the US military learned its lesson from that debacle, and nothing like that has ever been allowed to happen again.

Gregor

[LarryP]

You all know more than me on the historical part of subs. Makes good sense though, and I thank you all for teaching me what you have. [&o]