New AAR - but not as good as Snigbert's

[mogami]

It looks to me like a bunch of ships should head back to Japan.
Can you keep the air groups but send the CV ?
Luganville will have to be placed out of su[pply some how.
Prehaps a one time bombardment TF built around Yamato.
Use Mutsu and Nagato in covering force for landings.
Can you pull one of those Bde from Gilli?

[IChristie]

15 August -I start putting the plan for the final victory campaign in motion. Damaged ships are returned to Truk. Those already in Truk are sent back to Japan. I move the big surface units out of Lunga to Rabaul. I form a fast CL (CA, 2CL's, 4 DD's) force (with suzuya as flagship) and move it to Shortland. I pull the fastest DD's I can find out of Rabaul and LUnga and send them to Shortland as well. I embark engineers for Rennell Island and clear all other extraneous shipping out of Lunga in case it gets bombarded.

The LBA on Lunga decides now would be a good time to get off the ground so they fly all the way to Luganville to attack a convoy. Losses are surpirsingly light and they manage to torpedo an AP and drown some troops (the bad news is that this means more troops are arriving in Luganville!).

18 August - The buildup continues. Anything that can hold oil is ferrying fuel forward. When the larger AP's get to Truk, I pull them off rotation in preparation for loading troops. Gili Gili continues to get pounded day and night but the raids seem to be getting smaller. Probably some fatigue setting in on the bomber crews. I get all my available engineers from Lunga to Rennell and they start building the airstrip.

Recon flights over Koumac (sp?) on the North Tip of New Caledonia confirm the suspiscion that there is only a base force in residence.

22 August - Pretty quiet all 'round. The US surface TF at Luganville has disappeared out of the recon photos - not sure where it went. At the end of the turn, fuel reserves at Lunga were up to 15000 and several tanker convoys were on their way to Shortland.

It will probably take about another week for the various convoys to complete their final runs, that would be the first opportunity to start embarking troops...

It looks to me like a bunch of ships should head back to Japan.

My plan was to use the damaged CV's as the slow covering force to accompany the invasion fleet. They can still fly planes and most of them can make around 20 kts so they should be OK in that role. The damaged surface units have been sent to Japan with the exception of Kongo which sank on the way back to Truk

Too tired tonight to think deep tactical or strategic thoughts. I will ponder the problem tomorrow.

[IChristie]

Can you pull one of those Bde from Gilli?

I seem to recall that I already did pull them out. Now where the hell did I put them.

Don't you hate it when you lose something like that...


I know they must be around here somewhere...

[Raverdave]

Originally posted by madflava13
Sorry I wasn't clear -
I meant mine with subs. I don't know if you have any specialty subs like the US (Argonaut) that can carry more mines - if so, use them to do this exclusively, as they are probably bigger, slower and less likely to succeed in attacking ships.
For your other fleet subs (The I-class), set them up between Luganville and Noumea, Brisbane and Moresby... Also, if there's a supply line between Pearl Harbor and the theater, put a couple on that too - you may get lucky and finish off damaged ships or even sink some before they can get into combat.
Also, be sure to rotate them - Especially if they are spotted. Keep em fresh, keep em effective.

Madflava 13, you seem to have a grasp on what subs can and can't do of that time era, my question to you is, how long were the Jap subs able to operate before needing to be replenished? Hmmm....also same question goes to the US subs.

Thanks in advance.

[ratster]

Ian, just out of curiosity, since your going for the "TKO", does attacking a base with ground troops, or I should say combat taking place at a base, reduce the base's size?

Does bombing reduce its size?

Does lack of supply or maintenance reduce its size?

If the answers to any, or all, of these is yes, your going have to do more than just capture a level 5 base, since it may not be level 5 when it changes hands...

I think if the Japanes player hopes to achieve an automatic victory, they would have to start from the beginning with only that in mind, in order to succeed.

Deciding whether to go south, or east, and then commiting the whole force to just that end.

Given the apparent growing Allied LBA, and LCU forces I think your invasion TF is going to be in for a nasty welcome, long before they reach Luganville.

Like I said "an Island too far".

I still look forward to reading about it though.

[juliet7bravo]

Is the original IJN plan feasible, ie. going for Port Moresby? Can it be supplied overland at all? Could it be taken with the resources available without too big a price tag in surface ships?

[madflava13]

Raverdave-
Let me check some of my books and I'll get back to you tonight.

[Raverdave]

Originally posted by madflava13
Raverdave-
Let me check some of my books and I'll get back to you tonight.

Thanks:)

[IChristie]

Raverdave,

Does lack of supply or maintenance reduce its size?

I'm pretty sure not

Ian, just out of curiosity, since your going for the "TKO", does attacking a base with ground troops, or I should say combat taking place at a base, reduce the base's size?

I do not believe so, but I'm less certain about that

If the answers to any, or all, of these is yes, your going have to do more than just capture a level 5 base, since it may not be level 5 when it changes hands...

Agreed, but most of the target bases are larger than 6 anyway and I have lots of engineers to rebuild them if I have to.

Like I said "an Island too far".

You may very well be right, but it will be a much more interesting ending than sitting around waiting for the sky to fall (out of B-17, if you know what I mean;) )

Is the original IJN plan feasible, ie. going for Port Moresby? Can it be supplied overland at all? Could it be taken with the resources available without too big a price tag in surface ships?

An overland attack is possible but:
1. I estimate troop strength at Port Moresby is about 7 000 (at least). This would require and attacking force or around 20 000 (which I can muster).

2. I would have to get them all ashore at either Lae or Buna which would require running the guantlet of Port Moresby LBA - which is more daunting than Luganville by far. In fact, the only shipping losses I have suffered so far have been on resupply convoys to Lae and Buna (and to submarines).

3. Also, since the troops would not be assaulting the base itself there would be no chance of putting the airbase out of commission so the whole unloading operation (which might take up to a week) would be exposed. As would all of the resupply.

4. Crossing the Owen Stanleys would take about six weeks durning which time I would have to keep 20 000 troops supplied by bringing convoys into a port where they will be under attack for the entire unloading period.

5. Port Moresby is NOT an automatic victory hex.

In summary: I think it could be done, but IMHO it is not a very attractive option.

[mogami]

I don't think those 45% damaged CV's are going to be much help, can we reorganize the air wings to bring the good ones up to strength and send the damaged ones back Home?
I still feel we should wait till every thing is ready even if it means not being there on the first of Jan. As long as when we do go we go to stay.

[IChristie]

Hmmm... I'm not wild about waiting for them to return from a refit in Tokyo for a number of reasons

1. The US will just get stronger
2. There is no guarantee that they will come back
3. From an entertainment value perspective, it would be pretty boring to wait that long.

If I was playing against a human opponent in a "real" game I think I would agree with you. This campaign has kind of taken on a life of it's own and I figure we might as well roll the dice and see what comes up.

So, assuming we're not sending them back I thought a usefule role for them would be as close air support for the landing group because:
1. Their slower speed will not be a problem since they will be keeping pace with the transports
2. Some air support is better than none at all
3. If nothing else they will provide decoys for the allied air attacks which will seem select even seaplane tenders over big fat transports. There's no way they will ignore a carrier - especially a damaged one
4. Using the logic above, they are basically expendable since returning them to Japan is equivalent to losing them altogether if we want to act in the next 3 months (and I think we should).

I agree that the airflleets should go preferentially to the undamaged carriers. Bear in mind that the carrier airfleets are coming back to full strength faster than anything else as more carrier a/c replacements seem to be available.

I'll get a detailed status on that tonight.

Also note that I was planning to use some zeros currently based at land bases to increase the fighter complement of the close support group (even disembarking bombers if necessary).

I want the close support group to concentrate on defense. If the US carriers come out I will use the fast group (undamaged carriers) to attack them (and hopefully draw them into range of LBA).

Well, that's the plan anyways :rolleyes:

[mogami]

Gadzooks!!!! They are 300 plus VP each. 45% damage to start with I don't think they will do much good. Kept the airwings but send the birdfarms home. Then when the good CV's get in a fight they can swap airgroups and go right back out. (we are not going to lose any CV- hope hope). ( I can hear you now "Soldier where do you think your going" "To the hospital one of my arms has been shot off" "Get back in your hole and get ready to charge you still have one arm to fight with you coward" )
It's sad they are damaged but we have enough to cover their absence. I will have nightmares if you send a 45% damaged ship in harms way. (1 tiny hit and they will lose flight ops and then the air groups will be stuck onboard unable to transfer) I do not think they will help enough to justify it. Prehaps send the smallest back right now to see what kind of report you get from Japan as to how long it takes to repair and if/when it will come back. (Have you sent anyship back to Japan this game yet?)

[ratster]

Victory points are irrelevant when your going for the automatic victory. So losing them is of no consequence in game terms, especially if they can help before they go down. Hehe, given the amount of LBA thats no doubt going to be waiting for you as you approach Luganville, your gonna need anything that floats.

[mogami]

Sending wounded men into combat does not increase your chances. They stop bullets sure but that does not protect your healthy men. Instead you will provide targets for the allies to train their airgroups and then they will use this new skill to hurt our good ships. If you don't want to send them back to Japan ok but hold them as a reserve up in Truk. Then as a last (LAST) resort you could use them but remember it you could lose good aircraft along with the carrier. How much damage prevents flight ops?

[madflava13]

I concur with ratster... this is a hail-mary attempt for auto victory - send the kitchen sink.

[Jason629]

Send the kitchen sink! Even if it is leaking abit

Although, Mogami does have a good point with regards to the loss of Flight ops....I am not worried so much for the carriers as I am the planes.....The "Emperors Sea Eagles" must not be lost!

[mogami]

In this all out effort supply and fuel and pilots and aircraft are important. Don't waste any of them on futile gestures. Carrier planes are not really that good for attacking land targets and in a Carrier battle a ship that starts with one hand tied behind it's back is not a gamble it's throwing good after bad. Save the material to support the healthy combat worthy efforts. The escorts etc should be used to protect our healthy stuff. 1 lucky torpedo from a sub.....Hold these ships in reserve.

20% is leaking a bit 45% is **** near sinking (1 bomb or torpedo from it)

[Toro]

Iain,

Thanks for the amazing information and tactical report. I'm nearly wetting myself here waiting for this game.

I've a question concerning air units that lose their base of ops, such as the float recons and their AV tenders, or units attached to CVs or air stations. In many games, when the CV is sunk or damaged, but the units are in the air, the squadron is likewise considered "lost." How is this handled in UV? Also, you mentioned that it appears float recons can be forward staged where support may not be available, conduct a mission, then return to a supported base. Does this mean that there are not necessarily allocated support units specific to squadrons? IOW, if a squadron is based at Truk but shifts to Rabaul (where, let's say, a support unit is located), then maintenance support continues unabated? I recall the older game Carrier War in which support units were dedicated to squadrons, and if you changed bases for that squadron, no maintenance would ever occur again.

Thanks for the info!

[IChristie]

Don't forget this is system damage not flotation damage

I would agree entirely with you if it were flotation. 45% would make them incapable of operating a/c at all (anything more than about 10% seems to make it impossible for flight ops).

I am assuming that system damage in this case means that radars, gun mounts, engines, flight deck elevators (maybe catapults) are not working.

My understanding is that system damage does not impair seaworthiness at all but is more a measure of reduced combat effectiveness.

I have already sent Zuikaku and Shokaku into a fight with over 40% system damage each. They still did pretty well against the Saratoga in July.

So, the appropriate analogy would be telling soldiers to carry on up the hill even though they are out of ammuntion (FIXXXXXX Bayonettts!) and are missing various pieces of equipment. Which would be acceptable if ultimate victory seemed close.

I think as floating CAP platforms they will function acceptably. What I really want is for them to fend off the LBA while the undamaged carriers tangle with the US carriers if they show up.

AFAIK ships sent home are lost for at least 90 days if they come back at all. I'll check on some of the ones I already send back. Sending another one might be a useful test as well. I'll try it.

Also, I would certainly consider sending them home as soon as the invasion is over so that they might become available if the AI starts getting desperate at 1 Jan approaches.

This is a good discussion, though. Made me think through the rationale more thoroughly

[Toro]

Iain, and other betas,

With all the detail we've seen in your reports, how long does it take to process a turn?