Possible Naval Bug

[Veers]

I am playing EA and moved 5000 tons of eq to assault last turn. I failed to execute that assault and so I had 5000 tons of eq sitting off the coast. The following turn I disembarked these units, and had 5000 tons of trans left; not a big deal, these guys that assaulted last turn are 'on the beaches'. However, after I set up an attack with the old units and then cancelled that attack and then re-disembarked those units, I again had 5000 tons of shipping avail.
More riguerous testing is necessary. When I get a chance I will do some more testing, but in the meantime, maybe others could monkey around a bit.

[JAMiAM]

What do you mean "re-disembarked"? Do you mean re-embarked? If you disembark units that were loaded on transports from the previous turn, using the menu option, and without moving them at sea, then the transport capacity is not considered used.

Are you saying that you then loaded them back onto transports, after disembarking them, and without moving on land, and that the shipping cap was not used? Did you try to move them, before making the observation? After? If you get something duplicable, then let me know what steps you took. Thanks Wyatt!

[Veers]

I'll send you a saved game, James. Usual address?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Veers

I'll send you a saved game, James. Usual address?

Yes.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Veers

I am playing EA and moved 5000 tons of eq to assault last turn. I failed to execute that assault and so I had 5000 tons of eq sitting off the coast. The following turn I disembarked these units, and had 5000 tons of trans left; not a big deal, these guys that assaulted last turn are 'on the beaches'. However, after I set up an attack with the old units and then cancelled that attack and then re-disembarked those units, I again had 5000 tons of shipping avail.
More riguerous testing is necessary. When I get a chance I will do some more testing, but in the meantime, maybe others could monkey around a bit.

Doesn't sound like a bug to me. You can entrain then dis-entrain units without costing any capacity if you don't move them while entrained. Should be the same with embarkation.

Now what you probably did incur was that the re-disembarked units had no movement points left - that's a problem that should be fixed. I'll reiterate my old complaint that one should be able to cancel attacks without ill effects on units' original deployments.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


I'll reiterate my old complaint that one should be able to cancel attacks without ill effects on units' original deployments.

Seconded.

[Veers]

[:D]Definately a bug. Unless, of course, T3 is meant to have unlimited naval capacity.
Lads, try this: Entrain a unit and send it next to a port one a turn. Save do the opponent's turn and then youll be back to your turn. Now disembark the two units you have off the coast. You have max trans points. Load up some units, move them somewhere. Go back to the original stack, set them to attack and then cancel that attack. They become 'embarked' again. Right-click, disembark, and you have trans points again. Load up some more units and repeat for infinite naval transport points.
The key difference seems to be that you can embark a unit on the water no matter the number of trans points you have.

James, I haven't sent you a saved file, but if you can't follow these instructions (or it doesn't work for you), I'll send you an EA game at a point when I have 5000 tons/capacity and 13,800 tons on the water (plus the additional two units I moved out last turn).

I wonder if this has been around since earlier versions.

[Veers]

Anyone take a minute to coroberate this?

[JAMiAM]

I'll check the file you sent after I get back home from dinner.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Veers

[:D]Definately a bug. Unless, of course, T3 is meant to have unlimited naval capacity.
Lads, try this: Entrain a unit and send it next to a port one a turn. Save do the opponent's turn and then youll be back to your turn. Now disembark the two units you have off the coast. You have max trans points. Load up some units, move them somewhere. Go back to the original stack, set them to attack and then cancel that attack. They become 'embarked' again. Right-click, disembark, and you have trans points again. Load up some more units and repeat for infinite naval transport points.
The key difference seems to be that you can embark a unit on the water no matter the number of trans points you have.

James, I haven't sent you a saved file, but if you can't follow these instructions (or it doesn't work for you), I'll send you an EA game at a point when I have 5000 tons/capacity and 13,800 tons on the water (plus the additional two units I moved out last turn).

I wonder if this has been around since earlier versions.

Alright, that would be a bug. It wasn't clear in your first post that that was what was happening.

[Veers]

That's cause I wasn't quite clear myself. I just threw it up there without any in-depth testing hoping someone else would hop in and do the testing for me.

[JAMiAM]

Thanks for catching this, Wyatt. I confirmed the behavior with the file that you sent, and the instructions in post #7. I'll have Ralph look into why this is happening.

[Veers]

Right. I have a question, though.
Lets say that I land the ex. 1st Division on the beach on week one, but they don't get 'inland' (they're still sitting in the sea).
The next week I want to send the 2nd Division to assist, so I disembark the 1st Division (as it is 'ashore', but not 'inland') and load up the 2nd Division and bring it to the sea hex. Is that realistic, or is that taking advantage of the bug?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Veers

Right. I have a question, though.
Lets say that I land the ex. 1st Division on the beach on week one, but they don't get 'inland' (they're still sitting in the sea).
The next week I want to send the 2nd Division to assist, so I disembark the 1st Division (as it is 'ashore', but not 'inland') and load up the 2nd Division and bring it to the sea hex. Is that realistic, or is that taking advantage of the bug?

I'm going to have Ralph fix this so that if you're still at sea at the end of turn N, then on turn N+1, you will use up those sea transport points that are carrying the units still stuck at sea from the previous turn. I'm tempted to simply disallow disembarking while at sea. Period. I'd probably have some scenario designers up in arms about it, over some obscure use of the "feature" that they simply have to have in order for their scenario to play correctly, but I've seen this feature abused way too often to consider it much more than a programming oversight on Norm's part.

[Veers]

Ah, shite. Then I've been cheating in one game...[X(]
Oh well, at least it will get fixed.

In my defence the reason that I thought my explination for what I was doing was genuine is because Shane has used this tactic to invade Norway all the time...[:'(]
(Not the outrigth cheating, just the mistakingly cheating.)

[Erik2]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
... I'm tempted to simply disallow disembarking while at sea. Period. I'd probably have some scenario designers up in arms about it, over some obscure use of the "feature" that they simply have to have in order for their scenario to play correctly, but I've seen this feature abused way too often to consider it much more than a programming oversight on Norm's part.

Wouldn't this mean that Rangers and other special forces would be unable to sea-invade non-port locations?
Or am I missing something...
That said, Elmer has a tendency to debark units at sea and dig in.

[Veers]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Veers

Right. I have a question, though.
Lets say that I land the ex. 1st Division on the beach on week one, but they don't get 'inland' (they're still sitting in the sea).
The next week I want to send the 2nd Division to assist, so I disembark the 1st Division (as it is 'ashore', but not 'inland') and load up the 2nd Division and bring it to the sea hex. Is that realistic, or is that taking advantage of the bug?

I'm going to have Ralph fix this so that if you're still at sea at the end of turn N, then on turn N+1, you will use up those sea transport points that are carrying the units still stuck at sea from the previous turn. I'm tempted to simply disallow disembarking while at sea. Period. I'd probably have some scenario designers up in arms about it, over some obscure use of the "feature" that they simply have to have in order for their scenario to play correctly, but I've seen this feature abused way too often to consider it much more than a programming oversight on Norm's part.

Easy way to apease those designers, if you so wish to do so, would be to have a 'disembark only at ports' switch in the editor to turn the 'feature' on, if the scenario requires the 'feature' to work correctly.

[sPzAbt653]

Units disembarked in sea hexes will lose all their heavy equipment and any supply above 20%. Maybe? Please?

[Veers]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Units disembarked in sea hexes will lose all their heavy equipment and any supply above 20%. Maybe? Please?

Why?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Veers
Ah, ****e.....

I can't think of a five letter curse word that ends in e. Unless it's something you made up at the last minute. Or misspelled or something.