Okha bombing problem?

[dtravel]

I seem to remember there were some complaints that Okhas didn't work. Can someone tell me exactly what the issue is/was? In my game against the AI it has been sending out G4M2e Betties with Okhas and the few that have gotten thru CAP appear to have attacked without being fired on by AA but none of hit so far. The misses could just be the low numbers of attacks and low pilot experience, so I'm not complaining about that. I'm just trying to remember what the issue was so I can report on whether it is resolved or not.

[castor troy]

Ohkas NEVER hit in the game...

[Vetamur]

Yep. As I remember it someone sent out over 200 of them and never got a hit...

[rogueusmc]

...and low pilot experience, so I'm not complaining about that...

[:D]...if they had experience, they wouldn't be around to do it again...[:D]

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I seem to remember there were some complaints that Okhas didn't work. Can someone tell me exactly what the issue is/was? In my game against the AI it has been sending out G4M2e Betties with Okhas and the few that have gotten thru CAP appear to have attacked without being fired on by AA but none of hit so far. The misses could just be the low numbers of attacks and low pilot experience, so I'm not complaining about that. I'm just trying to remember what the issue was so I can report on whether it is resolved or not.

There sure is a lot of "Ohka" related code in the game code - definitely more than for any other specific plane - so for something that doesn't seem to do anything - the original devs sure put a lot of effort in. Nobody has ever sent me a save on this - so if somebody could set up a test with lots of Ohkas, I'll run it through the debugger and at least try to explain what those guys are doing.

[dtravel]

Well, I don't know what I can do about "lots" of Ohkas (it is near the end of the war and the AI is a little short on aircraft I suspect) but I'm going to be sending some carriers on another raid against the Home Islands soon.  I'll try to remember to put some saves on RapidShare if more Okha attacks occur.
 
(And not to sound too crusty, but I suspect that there is a lot of code in the program that doesn't do much of anything.  I keep seeing hints of things in the game that aren't finished.  Like some game mechanics that only make sense if you assume there is something missing that didn't get finished before the product was released.  But I suspect that a lot of people really don't want to hear that kind of thing from me right now, so I won't say it.  [:'(] )

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Well, I don't know what I can do about "lots" of Ohkas (it is near the end of the war and the AI is a little short on aircraft I suspect) but I'm going to be sending some carriers on another raid against the Home Islands soon.  I'll try to remember to put some saves on RapidShare if more Okha attacks occur.

(And not to sound too crusty, but I suspect that there is a lot of code in the program that doesn't do much of anything.  I keep seeing hints of things in the game that aren't finished.  Like some game mechanics that only make sense if you assume there is something missing that didn't get finished before the product was released.  But I suspect that a lot of people really don't want to hear that kind of thing from me right now, so I won't say it.  [:'(] )

Well the Ron club loves to hear that kind of thing so just stop by there for a beer and chat 'em up!!! [;)]

But some of us - you too I suspect - we're just trying to do what we can to make things a little better and not worry so much about characterizing what came before. We are where we are - we can't go back.

As to "lots" of Ohkas .. well at least more than one ..

[dtravel]

Oh, and by the way, I have yet to see any indication of Kamikaze attacks.  Despite having captured Iwo Jima, Bonin, Tori Shima and half of Okinawa with it now being beginning of May 1945.  Maybe you could try to look at that too if/when I get some saves that generate Okha attacks.

[Speedysteve]

Also Joe - do you think the rumours are correct that Okha production should be 90 instead of 9?

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Oh, and by the way, I have yet to see any indication of Kamikaze attacks.  Despite having captured Iwo Jima, Bonin, Tori Shima and half of Okinawa with it now being beginning of May 1945.  Maybe you could try to look at that too if/when I get some saves that generate Okha attacks.

A number of folks have said AI doesn't do Kamikaze attacks. At least not non-Okha ones.

And as to Speedy's question about Ohka production, I'd have to look it up, don't know that one off the top of my head. Assuming it is monthly, like the other items, 9 does sound a bit low. Like if you're gonna build 'em then go ahead and build 'em .. but I'm sure the data exists, shouldn't be hard to find.

[castor troy]

Yokosuka
MXY7 Ohka
Kamikaze Attack Plane



DESCRIPTION:
As the Japanese military became increasingly desperate to find ways of slowing the Allied advance, naval officer Ensign Mitsuo Ohta conceived a specialized suicide attack aircraft. This plane was to be inexpensive, easy to manufacture in large numbers, and equipped for high speed to avoid being shot down. Once the concept had been accepted, Yokosuka began developing the MXY7 Ohka (cherry blossom). The Ohka was a small, rocket-powered vehicle mounting a large warhead in the nose and intended to be carried to the target area by a Mitsubishi G4M2e bomber. After being released, the Ohka would engage its rocket motors to make a high-speed dash to the target ship.
Flight testing began in late 1944, but production of the Navy Suicide Attacker Ohka Model 11 began even before these tests were complete. By March 1945, 755 of the Model 11 had been built, but initial deployments proved rather unsuccessful. Although difficult to shoot down because of its high speed, the Ohka was a sitting duck when still attached to the large, slow mother plane. In addition, the design proved very difficult to maneuver making it nearly impossible to hit even a slow moving target.

In an attempt to improve the odds, a new version, the Model 22, began production. This model featured reduced wingspan and a smaller warhead allowing the Ohka to be carried by the much faster Yokosuka P1Y1 Ginga medium bomber. The Model 22 was also fitted with a Campini-type jet engine instead of rockets increasing the Ohka's range as well as reducing speed to allow better maneuverability. However, the jet engine was found to be vastly underpowered resulting in later versions powered by a turbojet, but none of these reached production before the end of the war.

Japan also studied other methods for launching the Ohka, including a land based version and one carried by submarines. Although some 850 Ohkas were built, including trainer versions equipped with landing skids, only 50 ever saw combat. These sank just three enemy ships.

Last modified 01 February 2005



HISTORY:
First Flight October 1944 [unpowered flight]
November 1944 [powered flight]
Service Entry

21 March 1945


CREW: 1 pilot


ESTIMATED COST:

unknown


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root unknown
Wing Tip

unknown


DIMENSIONS:
Length (Model 11) 19.90 ft (6.07 m)
(Model 22) 22.56 ft (6.88 m)
(Model 43B) 26.77 ft (8.17 m)
Wingspan (Model 11) 16.40 ft (5.00 m)
(Model 22) 13.52 ft (4.12 m)
(Model 43B) 29.53 ft (9.01 m)
Height (Model 11) 3.94 ft (1.20 m)
(Model 22) 3.94 ft (1.20 m)
(Model 43B) 3.77 ft (1.15 m)
Wing Area (Model 11) 64.59 ft2 (6.00 m2)
(Model 22) 43.06 ft2 (4.01 m2)
(Model 43B) 139.93 ft2 (13.02 m2)

Canard Area

not applicable


WEIGHTS:
Empty (Model 11) 970 lb (440 kg)
(Model 22) 1,200 lb (545 kg)
(Model 43B) 2,535 lb (1,150 kg)
Typical Load unknown
Max Takeoff (Model 11) 4,720 lb (2,140 kg)
(Model 22) 3,200 lb (1,450 kg)
(Model 43B) 5,005 lb (2,270 kg)
Fuel Capacity internal: unknown
external: unknown
Max Payload

(Model 11) 2,645 lb (1,200 kg)
(Model 22) 1,325 lb (600 kg)
(Model 43B) 1,745 lb (790 kg)


PROPULSION:
Powerplant (Model 11) three Type 4 Mk 1 solid-propellant rocket motors
(Model 22) one TSU-11 Campini-type jet
(Model 43B) one Ne-20 turbojet
Thrust (Model 11) 1,765 lb (7.85 kN)
(Model 22) 550 lb (2.45 kN)
(Model 43B) 1,045 lb (4.65 kN)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at sea level:
(Model 11) 535 mph (860 km/h)
(Model 22) 300 mph (480 km/h)
(Model 43B) 345 mph (555 km/h)
dive speed: 620 mph (1,000 km/h)
Initial Climb Rate unknown
Service Ceiling unknown
Range (Model 11) 50 nm (90 km)
(Model 22) 70 nm (130 km)
(Model 43B) 150 nm (275 km)
g-Limits unknown


ARMAMENT:
Gun none
Stations none
Air-to-Air Missile none
Air-to-Surface Missile none
Bomb (Model 11) one 1,200-kg warhead
(Model 22) one 600-kg warhead
(Model 43B) one 790-kg warhead
Other none


KNOWN VARIANTS:
Model 11 First production model powered by a three-chamber rocket motor and carried to within target range by a G4M2e bomber; 755 built
K-1 Unpowered trainer version based on the Model 11 but with the warhead removed and replaced by water ballast that was ejected to reduce landing speeds; 45 built
Model 22 Smaller, lighter version with a reduced wingspan and a smaller warhead so the aircraft could be carried by the smaller but faster P1Y bomber, the rocket motor was replaced by a Campini-type jet engine but this was found to be underpowered; 50 built
Model 33 Model to be powered by one Ne-20 turbojet and carried aloft by a Nakajima G8N Renzan bomber; cancelled
Model 43 K-1 Kai Two-seat trainer powered by a single Type 4 Mk I Model 20 rocket motor and fitted with flaps and landing skis; 2 built
Model 43A Enlarged model to be powered by one Ne-20 turbojet and fitted with folding wings so as to be carried aboard and launched from submarines; not built
Model 43B Model 43A variant to be launched by catapult from land and fitted with wing tips that could be jettisoned to increase speed; not built
Model 53 Turbojet-powered variant to be towed into the air by any aircraft fitted with a towline; not built



The war has to last very long if you want to build those numbers too! Though as tests have shown, no matter if you would build 1000 a month, Ohkas don´t work anyway! [8|] If not a patch has anything changed then they still don´t work. Can´t remember who did the testing but what I CAN remember is that they NEVER EVER hit something... not unrealistic, though then all the work coding the thing was not worth it... [;)] Real life hit rate 3 out of 50....


not to forget the source of this article: www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/attack/ohka/

[Nikademus]

the 9 is a boo boo. Changed to 90 in that mod which shall not be named. [:'(]

10x the chance of missing your target baby! [;)]

[jwilkerson]

My first ever run through an Okha attack test. With 11 Okha 11 attacking, what do I see??? One hits!!!

[Nikademus]

lol....we it was always said they could hit...but it was hard!

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

My first ever run through an Okha attack test. With 11 Okha 11 attacking, what do I see??? One hits!!!

ROFLMAO......
It's a conspiracy[X(][X(][X(]
Moderators [&o] must get special privileges granted in the game code [:D]
Now if just 1 Corsair was on CAP..........

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

My first ever run through an Okha attack test. With 11 Okha 11 attacking, what do I see??? One hits!!!

ROFLMAO......
It's a conspiracy[X(][X(][X(]
Moderators [&o] must get special privileges granted in the game code [:D]
Now if just 1 Corsair was on CAP..........

I thought it was the "RhonKlubbe" members that got those "special" previledges!!!
[:D][:D][:D]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

My first ever run through an Okha attack test. With 11 Okha 11 attacking, what do I see??? One hits!!!

ROFLMAO......
It's a conspiracy[X(][X(][X(]
Moderators [&o] must get special privileges granted in the game code [:D]
Now if just 1 Corsair was on CAP..........

I thought it was the "RhonKlubbe" members that got those "special" previledges!!!
[:D][:D][:D]

I can´t remember who did the tests - and of course posted it on the forum - but IIRC out of 200 Ohkas: 0 hits... I´m not lying, why should I??[8|]


edit: did some searching. Honda was the one who tested the Ohkas. I can´t get the link to the thread working... how do I post links to other threads? If you search "Ohka" from autor "Honda" then you will find the thread yourself...

[spence]

Apparently there is a bunch of code to deal with this marginal weapon...seems a pity that the Bat guided bomb didn't get included in the database as well...historically I guess it didn't work too much better than the Okha though it seems it was employed more...leastways it sank more ships. (It did have the added benefit of not requiring the pilot to die).

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!



ROFLMAO......
It's a conspiracy[X(][X(][X(]
Moderators [&o] must get special privileges granted in the game code [:D]
Now if just 1 Corsair was on CAP..........

I thought it was the "RhonKlubbe" members that got those "special" previledges!!!
[:D][:D][:D]

I can´t remember who did the tests - and of course posted it on the forum - but IIRC out of 200 Ohkas: 0 hits ... I´m not lying, why should I??[8|]


edit: did some searching. Honda was the one who tested the Ohkas. I can´t get the link to the thread working... how do I post links to other threads? If you search "Ohka" from autor "Honda" then you will find the thread yourself...

The word "lying" is not relevant to this discussion.

While one counter-example does show that the probability of a hit is greater than zero, it does not show whether it is "high enough" or not. I've certainly gotten a lot of feedback from PzB and others that they believed the probability was zero, and that why I was so surprised (shocked!) when the first time I view an Okha attack, it actually gets a hit. But having gone down the path of looking at this, we will continue a bit further and see if we see anything that looks out of whack.

Oh, to get thread links, click on the Post #:18 down in the lower right hand corner of the post ...

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

My first ever run through an Okha attack test. With 11 Okha 11 attacking, what do I see??? One hits!!!

ROFLMAO......
It's a conspiracy[X(][X(][X(]
Moderators [&o] must get special privileges granted in the game code [:D]
Now if just 1 Corsair was on CAP..........

I thought it was the "RhonKlubbe" members that got those "special" previledges!!!
[:D][:D][:D]

Ya, and we wish you'd take them away. I distinctly remember not asking for extra bugs & glitches with my order.

[:'(]