Treespider vs. ctangus - Treespider's CHS v1.03

[treespider]

After having tweeked my version of CHS - Treespider's CHS - to v1.03 by including JWE's awesome ship updates and artwork...ctangus and I have embarked on a playing of this mod...I am the Japanese.

Some of the big changes in the mod include adding additional bases to China and reducing many of the airfield sizes. These certainly make the game more challenging as players have grown accustomed to operating their aircraft from "optimal" sized bases. One of the reasons for reducing the base sizes is because IMO many of the bases in the Pacific War were not "optimal".

Well first impressions - Trying to decide where to go for the Japanese "At start" is certainly problematic...there are a number of sze 2 and 3 airfields but in many instances they are limited because the SPS is 0. The attractive bases are the ones with SPS of 1 even though they may only start as a size 1 field.

We decided on reasonable common sense house rules and a non-historical start. The Allies could issue orders everywhere with the exception of Pearl Harbor...

My first strike on Pearl Harbor was ineffectual as only one daitai of Kates launched torpedoes. When going through dry runs I occassionally saw 2 or even 3 daitai's worth of torpedos being launched ...but I got a bad die roll at Pearl so ended up with few torpedo hits...

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 114,72

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
D3A2 Val x 137
B5N2 Kate x 164
E14Y1 Glen x 1
E8N Dave x 1

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A2 Val: 27 destroyed, 71 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 19 destroyed, 51 damaged
E14Y1 Glen: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 17 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 7 destroyed
PBY Catalina: 9 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed
C-47 Dakota: 4 destroyed
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed
P-26A: 1 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 5 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 1 destroyed
B-18A Bolo: 6 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 1
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 10, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 18, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 18, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Neosho, Bomb hits 1
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 15, on fire
ML Oglala, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Worden, Bomb hits 1
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
CL Helena, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AVD Swan, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Dolphin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
MSW Turkey, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Laida, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
122 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 23
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 131

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
28 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 7000 feet
25 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 6000 feet
14 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 4000 feet
20 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 4000 feet
21 x D3A2 Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing at 5000 feet


Elsewhere ctangus tried to implement Operation Pineapple - the relocation of the 81st Philippine Division to Jolo. Unfortunately for our erstwhile MacArthur the first detachment to be offloaded by Catalina's was overwhelmed by a company of Japanese paratroopers detached to seize the vital level 2 airfield at Jolo.

Ground combat at Jolo Island
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 266 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 11
Defending force 288 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9
Japanese max assault: 18 - adjusted assault: 11
Allied max defense: 8 - adjusted defense: 1
Japanese assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 0)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Jolo Island base !!!

Allied ground losses:
408 casualties reported

The Japanese made extensive use of paratroopers on the first day seizing bases at Vigan, Laoag, Legaspi and Naga in the Philippines as well as the port of Jesselton in Northern Borneo.

Landings were made at Kota Bharu in Malaya, Manado on Northern Celebes, as well as at Guam and Tarawa. The base at Tarawa was rapidly seized.

As others have pointed out China starts off as a complete mess...no wonder the Japanese thought the SRA would be easy pickings...Unfortunately for the Japanese they no longer have the luxury of completely eliminating the guerilla units from their rear areas as they are para capable. (A gimmick to give them extra mobility to strike into the Japanese rear should the Allied player make transport planes available.) The Chinese have three rather large guerilla base forces in the "rear" of the Japanese line from which to operate. At the moment I have no hope of trying to reduce these base areas ( their AV is quite large). On top of all of that the additional bases are all ungarrisoned. There are a number of nanking Army units available for garrison work however they ahve a very low AV and contribute little to the actual garriosn value. As a result I see no real offensive potential in China in the near term - until I can figure out how I can contain the guerilla threat. On a related note the Japanese IMB's and later arriving CEA divisions have been amalgamated into the same units as some of the IMB's were the cadre for the later divisions...so the Japanese get the divisions early but far below full strength...

[aztez]

Good luck with this one. I have also a new PBEM started againts Chuck. [:)]
 
Your Pearl Harbour strike looked very similar to mine. A way too many bombs and not enough torpedoes. (I actually launched 5 times in diffrent days and only BB Oklahoma sunk)
 
Anyway I will be watching this one and maybe I get few hints out of it on how to organize/play the Japanese side of things.

[treespider]

Thanks for the encouragement! The Pearl Harbor strike seems typical. When I was testing the opening every 3rd or 5th time I would see a bunch of torpedoes launched by the Kates - but most of the time it was primarily bombs with one daitai launching torpedoes. Perhaps this is tied to the reduced experience of all pilots on both sides...making it harder to pass a die roll... 
 

[treespider]

Treespider's china ....for the uninitiated...

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Elsewhere ctangus tried to implement Operation Pineapple - the relocation of the 81st Philippine Division to Jolo. Unfortunately for our erstwhile MacArthur the first detachment to be offloaded by Catalina's was overwhelmed by a company of Japanese paratroopers detached to seize the vital level 2 airfield at Jolo.

I thought it was a brilliant move when I ordered it. Now I've wasted 120 PPs and have a bunch of troops on transports with at least one, probably a couple, Japanese CVLs lurking nearby. Oops...

As tree noted, the port attack at Pearl was anemic as seems to be the case more often than not. My air force was pretty well pulverized, though. Coupled with losses sustained in attacks against Malaya, Luzon and Cagayan on Mindanao I lost 158 planes today. The Japanese lost 76 including 31 Vals and 21 Kates to flak. Most/all of those were over Oahu. All things considered the ratio wasn't too bad.

I had freedom to issue any orders I wanted to on turn one (other than not touching Hawaii). Other than China, though, I didn't order too much. One of the orders I did issue was to stage a squadron of Swordfish with a squadron of Buffalos escorting to Kuala Lumpur. They put a torpedo into BB Haruna off Kota Bharu. [:)] My pilots reported heavy flooding. LGen Percival reports that as a result Malaya will certainly repulse the invaders.

Strangely, no shipping has been spotted at Singora. However sigint reported radio transmissions there and Japanese planes seem to be there too. Probably just some blind pilots but patrol planes and a sub will check it out tomorrow.

Elsewhere, the Dutch DD Evertsen hit a mine off Merak, presumably sub-laid.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: ctangus


I had freedom to issue any orders I wanted to on turn one (other than not touching Hawaii). Other than China, though, I didn't order too much. One of the orders I did issue was to stage a squadron of Swordfish with a squadron of Buffalos escorting to Kuala Lumpur. They put a torpedo into BB Haruna off Kota Bharu. [:)] My pilots reported heavy flooding. LGen Percival reports that as a result Malaya will certainly repulse the invaders.

Nothing but a flesh wound....

I'm curious how flak losses will be impacted in this game...Cruising Speed is a determinant in AA combat and since all planes are now rated in terms of knots they are all slower and hence more vulnerable. On the flip side I standardized AA values based on Larry Bond's work in Command at Sea so some values went up and some went down...time will tell.

[ctangus]

Some initial impressions from my end:

The lower starting AF sizes will likely make my initial defensive deployments different than I'm used to. In Cent Pac/So Pac there's no allied territory other than Hawaii that can easily build 3 or more mutually-supporting bases. Samoa and the Fijis can each build 2. New Caledonia's potentially vulnerable - only Noumea has an airfield SPS greater than 0 so could potentially be shut down just by KB alone. But that also makes it less attractive for the Japanese, too - if lost it should be vulnerable to an early counter-attack. I'm not sure what to do here, yet. I'll probably make a decision once my mid-Jan reinforcements arrive.

Without a zillion torpedo shops all over the place, allied shipping will be easier to protect from the Betty/Nell menace. That potentially could give me a good opportunity to resupply & reinforce and hold some portion of the Malay barrier if the Japanese fall behind the historical timetable. It's far too early to decide on such a course of action, though. I doubt treespider will give me the chance.

On the other hand, the reduced AF sizes will reduce the load-outs of my level bombers. That, coupled with overall reduced experience, should make it harder to gain air superiority over an area. I suspect we'll see battles for air superiority that will last weeks, not days as usually occurs in stock.

And a few random thoughts looking further down the road. I can potentially see large battles over Lunga or Luganville. A New Guinea offensive looks mighty tempting. It'll be damn hard to project air power into the Gilberts, etc. until masses of Seabees arrive. I think I'll treat construction engineers as a strategic asset.

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: treespider

Nothing but a flesh wound....

I suspected that, but we have to keep up appearances. The news is all over the UK papers...

I'm curious how flak losses will be impacted in this game...Cruising Speed is a determinant in AA combat and since all planes are now rated in terms of knots they are all slower and hence more vulnerable. On the flip side I standardized AA values based on Larry Bond's work in Command at Sea so some values went up and some went down...time will tell.

Yea, I'm curious too. If Bergerud's Fire in the Sky is anything to go on, flak losses are definitely too low in stock. (My favorite aspect of Nik Mod, contrary to what I've often read on the board, is his flak increases.)

Well, it should affect both sides equally since you applied the speed changes equally. We'll see how it plays out but I think it would be a good thing if it forced us to fly at higher altitudes and/or less often.

[treespider]

I don't believe I have ever seen the Brits so successful or subs so active so early....
 
Here are the highlights and lowlights...
 
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/08/41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 42,52
 
Japanese Ships
SS I-159
 
Allied Ships
DD Pope, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
DD Pillsbury
DD Peary
DD John D. Ford
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 23,51
 
Japanese Ships
SS I-164
 
Allied Ships
AK Vitorlock, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 120,69
 
Japanese Ships
SS I-4
 
Allied Ships
AK Cynthia Olson
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Brunei  at 33,56
 
Japanese Ships
AK Thames Maru, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
DE Patrol Boat No. 46
 
Allied Ships
SS O20
 
Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1162 encounters mine field at Soerabaja (23,66)
 
Allied Ships
DD Kortenaer
DD Banckert
DD Witte de With, Mine hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kota Bharu  at 24,45
 
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 7
PG Tatsumiya Maru
PC Shumshu
 
Allied Ships
SS KXII
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 23,51
 
Japanese Ships
SS I-164, hits 8,  on fire
 
Allied Ships
DD Vampire, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage - SUNK
DD Express
DD Electra
DD Tenedos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kota Bharu at 24,45
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 13
 
Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 5
Vildebeest IV x 11
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
Wirraway: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Vildebeest IV: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
BB Haruna
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kota Bharu at 24,45
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 13
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8
 
Allied aircraft
Vildebeest IV x 14
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest IV: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
AP Awajisan Maru, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
AK Atutasan Maru, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
AK Kinka Maru
 
Japanese ground losses:
33 casualties reported
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Puerto Princesa at 39,55
 
Japanese aircraft
B4Y Jean x 8
B5N2 Kate x 18
 
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
 
Allied Ships
DD Pope, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
DD Pillsbury, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
 
Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 7
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kota Bharu at 24,45
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 13
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8
 
Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 4
Vildebeest IV x 6
 
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 damaged
 
Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest IV: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kota Bharu at 24,45
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 13
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8
 
Allied aircraft
Vildebeest IV x 3
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest IV: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 40,50
 
Japanese Ships
DD Hayabusa
 
Allied Ships
SS Sargo
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 37,59
 
Japanese Ships
SS I-160
 
Allied Ships
AK Don Jose, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Manado, at 39,67
 
Japanese Ships
DD Sanae
DD Kuretake
CL Yura
BB Hyuga
BB Ise
 
 
Allied ground losses:
218 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 1
 
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 10
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 7
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Singora  at 24,43
 
Japanese Ships
DD Ayanami
DD Shikinami
DD Uranami
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Shirayuki
DD Isonami
DD Shirakumo
 
Allied Ships
SS KXI, hits 2
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[aztez]

Ouch. Actually Chuck has been very nasty so far with RAF in our CHS game! [:-] ...so reading this comes to no suprise.

[ctangus]

Hi Jari - the RAF is invincible! [;)]

Treespider - it looks like most/all of the starting RAF squadrons didn't have their experience dropped like everyone else. Same with the Dutch.

An RAF pilot took this picture of state-of-the-art RAF & IJAAF planes tangling over Kota Bharu:

[ctangus]

Elsewhere, the Kido Butai is running away at full speed from the might of the inevitable allied counter-strike. Actually it looks like it's going to cover landings at Wake Island as that was pummeled overnight by several IJN battleships.

In Malaya the strike against Kongo was the biggest news. My pilots reported her burning from stem to stern. It has also been confirmed that troops are unloading at Singora as well.

With more landings in British Borneo and Japanese reinforcements landing at Manado it looks like the Japanese are making it a priority to cut the SLOCs to the Phillipines.

[ctangus]

12/9/42

Cent Pac

In an audacious move, Bill Halsey tries to stop the upcoming Japanese invasion of Wake Island. Our only enemy was the weather - despite being 60 miles from the Japanese transports clouds prevented strikes. Enemy battleships at Wake were targeted instead but the TBDs couldn't find the target. Well, hopefully Nagato will need some port time.

Halsey is recommending to press the attack but VAdm Pye is starting to get cold feet.

Elsewhere in the Central Pacific ornithologists across the world were shocked and dismayed at the Japanese occupation of Baker Island.

[ctangus]

Netherlands East Indies

Rumors of Japanese sabotage were confirmed when it was discovered that the CW-21B Demon has had its "max altitude" set to 0 back at the factory. I wonder if it can still function as a strafer...

China

Some Japanese advances have been detected along the following routes: Hankow -> Changsha, Canton -> Wuchow and Yangku -> Yenan.

Malaya

Stripped of their battleship cover, the enemy transports off Khota Bharu were successfully attacked by Force Z. We expect to drive the enemy back into the sea any day. Damage control experts report that Prince of Wales and Repulse will be back in action within the week.

While undoubtedly a good omen for the Allies, even the English press is expressing sorrow that DD Hibiki was the first Japanese combat ship (DD or above) to sink in the war.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: ctangus

Netherlands East Indies

Rumors of Japanese sabotage were confirmed when it was discovered that the CW-21B Demon has had its "max altitude" set to 0 back at the factory. I wonder if it can still function as a strafer...

ARRGHHH! I don't know how that happened....I don't recall messing with the altitude settings on the CW-21B.[:(]

EDIT: C-60A has also been bugged...

[ctangus]

Clearly treespider is an Anti-Demon Fanboi. Despite this obvious fanboiism the allies will prevail!!!

(In truth he seems to be much more concerned about it than I am.)

[aztez]

[:D][:D] ...sabotage is always good weapon is war! [:D]
 
I see that Ctangus decieded to properly engage the Force Z... [;)]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: aztez

[:D][:D] ...sabotage is always good weapon is war! [:D]

I see that Ctangus decieded to properly engage the Force Z... [;)]

He did and it promptly got away in spite of a massive hunt with Betties and Nells...

[treespider]

Ctangus and I have come to the realization that this will be a beta test of the mod...since a number of rather important errors in data have come to the surface since starting play...

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: aztez

[:D][:D] ...sabotage is always good weapon is war! [:D]

I see that Ctangus decieded to properly engage the Force Z... [;)]

He did and it promptly got away in spite of a massive hunt with Betties and Nells...

Well, obviously Billy Mitchell was wrong and the battleship still rules the waves...

Unfortunately it wasn't enough to disrupt the enemy landings and Kota Bharu fell on the 10th.