Suggestions to make a good game great

[gavpants]

Very impressed by the game. I've played SC2 a lot but unless you're playing 2 players, which can be a great deal of fun, it was pretty unplayable after a couple of games as the AI was poor. I think CEAW has got it spot on in terms of map scale, number of units, playability and a much more challenging AI. I've been particularly impressed by the sweeping encirclement movements the AI attempts, especially in the vastness of Russia.
However, I do think there are a couple of improvements that could be made and probably with relative ease:
1) Weather. No one seems to have touched on this too much but I think its a major issue. The lack of any weather affects, except in Russia, is highly unrealistic. There doesn't seem to be anything preventing a D-Day in december. Granted, northern France in december does not compare to Moscow but it still seriously limited operations. The allies had to postpone D-day by a day in June due to bad weather - there is no way they would have attempted an invasion in the winter months. This must be addressed as it was such a major factor. Both the Allies and Axis could be relatively secure during the winter that either a sealion or d-day would not be attempted and this was a time for regrouping and marshalling forces. The game has to reflect the limited movement, combat factors and limited air ops of a european winter, however mild it may be compared to Russia. Surely the USSR winter affect can be expanded to simply include the northern european theatre, with less dramatic affects than in Russia. Simple but would make a huge difference to playability. That said, I think the USSR winter should be worse, especially for movement. Playing as the allies on 2 advantage to the Axis, I'm being beaten in Russia but have just launched a successful december/january 1942/43 d-day. Just too unrealistic for my liking and this would not detract from the simple playability of the game.
2) As Iraq and Iran are "pro-allied", the allies cannot declare war on them and secure their assets. Again - unrealistic. No way the allies would leave the resources on their doorstep and they didn't. Both countries were invaded and their oil secured. Why can't the allies invade countries that they know the Axis would love to.
3) Navies. Impressed by the convoy systems. I like choosing to protect the big convoys and leaving the small ones to the wolf packs. However, I think the navies for everybody should be bigger to give the Axis more options and ships should take much longer to produce. Will make you think twice about sending that battleship against the wolfpacks. Also - there should be some capacity to script the historical arrival of the Bismarck - just to give the British something to think about in the north sea. maybe the Italians and brits also receive some historical shipbuilds that were started pre-war. I think this would really spruce up the naval war, again without making the game anymore complex.
4) Either named units or ability to name units. If for no other reason than its gives you some attachment to the units you're controlling. Very basic but would really force the player to go all out to save the 6th army...

Overall a very enjoyable game but weather especially would really help.

[firepowerjohan]

I agree on almost any point you have listed. One quick note though is that we have Winter effects in Russia with slower movements and efficiency drops. In fact, Axis forces get more penalty that Russian units which is good and the movement penalties last for several turns.

But yes, we did consider a dynamic continuous weather model and that is something we consider for the future [8D]

[JudgeDredd]

I'd like to add

• Stacking of air unit and ground unit (no other stcking required)
• Reduce the effectiveness of sea units on submarines - I mean, a 10 sub unit will be taken out by two sea units in one turn - I think that's too damaging and I, personally, find sub units too expensive for what they achieve....I simply don't have the resources to produce the amount needed to have any impact on the convoys!
• Adjust scroll speed of the map in the closest level

[jynx11]

Just my 2 cents but after playing a handful of wargames I just find that stacking other then maybe air units sucks.  My reason is I hate cutting through loads and loads of units in a capital for example.  I could see maybe adding stacking but only of different types like 1 armor, one corp for an added defense or attack bonus but other then that I am not a big fan of stacking.  I understand I am probably the minority here but just my 2 cents.

[JudgeDredd]

I'm with you on stacking.

And the game, at this scale, does not require stacking imo

[gavpants]

Yes the USSR winter effect is crucial and the severe penalties on the Axis is good. I think a wider weather effect is the most important tweak which the game needs however. The seasons played a very important role and if weather has such a big impact on the Axis outside Minsk for example, its going to impact on troops outside warsaw too. I'm no programming expert but can a north western/central european weather effect be added to mirror the USSR one - with maybe 60% of the adverse affects? Call me a funny but I just couldn't enjoy my winter d-day!
In response to judge - I agree that the anti-sub combat needs to be modified slightly. Definitely greatly reduce the attacks of battleships. As judge states, naval warfare can quickly become immaterial to the game.

[Dave Ferguson]

Some winter effect on invasions is a good idea. In NW Europe you get about 8 hours of daylight in winter, and 16 in summer. More storms and lots of rain to curtail air operations.

For me the ultimate suggestion to make a good game great is to include a scenario editor.

Then follow this up with a map editor or a way of creating your own maps. I wonder if that map file with zillions of lines of land and sea hexes is the actual terrain array or just something denoting hex ownership? If it is the terrain array it would be relatively simple to create a new one using a utility that converts map features into a text file. I had a go at writing one a couple of years ago, it worked but had nothing to actually use it for!

What I am looking for here is a map at a different scale for the ultimate SIMPLE east front carnage. Half the hex size and 10 day turns.

[Dave Ferguson]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
Reduce the effectiveness of sea units on submarines - I mean, a 10 sub unit will be taken out by two sea units in one turn - I think that's too damaging and I, personally, find sub units too expensive for what they achieve....I simply don't have the resources to produce the amount needed to have any impact on the convoys

It appears the survivabilty and lethality of subs can be changed in the script file. However the default values will have been determined by exaustive playtesting so it is probably better to get several campaigns completed. Plus if playing PBEM both players will need the same script?

historically the germans put a LOT of resources into u-boats and aircraft but with the former were always behind the curve and only having about 30 operational boats in 1939 did not help!

Of course we are all thrashing around seeking the correct strategic options/builds, half the fun [:)]

A commerce raider at sea in 1939 might be interesting!

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'd like to add

• Stacking of air unit and ground unit (no other stcking required)
• Reduce the effectiveness of sea units on submarines - I mean, a 10 sub unit will be taken out by two sea units in one turn - I think that's too damaging and I, personally, find sub units too expensive for what they achieve....I simply don't have the resources to produce the amount needed to have any impact on the convoys!
• Adjust scroll speed of the map in the closest level

With further play I discovered what is really making scrolling a nuisance. There is a dead area of the screen edge on the bottom left side that does not cause the map to sroll. You have to slide the cursor over to the bottom center of the monitor to get a bottom scroll to work. If anything, it should be the bottom right edge of the screen that is dead so you don't accidentally cause a scroll when you are merely going for the button array in the bottom right. In addition, the scrolling at highest zoom is "herky jerky" and not anything resembling smooth.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm with you on stacking.

And the game, at this scale, does not require stacking imo

The lack of stacking causes many difficulties. Attacks have to be preplanned in sequence very, very carefully or routes to and hexes next to enemies will be quickly blocked by your own units. Air units get pushed out of range by ground units that need proximity to the border to reach a target on the first turn of attack. Osolo is a particular nuisance. The battleship that bombards it blocks the transport from getting access to it, forcing you to land your troops so far away it takes several turns to get them adjacent to the city after landing. Stacking should at least be alloed for air, land and naval in the same hex with another provision for naval combat to stack with naval transport units.

There should be a provision for retreatinmg after combat in addition to advancing, That way limited frontage around important cities that HAVE to fall for your attack to succeed can be freed up for second wave attackers.

[JudgeDredd]

I agree with this...

Stacking should at least be alloed for air, land and naval in the same hex with another provision for naval combat to stack with naval transport units.

But this...

There should be a provision for retreatinmg after combat in addition to advancing...

...could require some serious "rebalancing" of the game mechanics....don't forget this game has been playtested with the engine as is...allowing stacking would require a massive amount of playtesting and may even be unusable with the current

In fact, thinking about it, even the minial request of stacking (air and land units) could require significant reprogramming and testing. I expect, in it's current incarnation, these will not be possible.

[IainMcNeil]

While we will try to come over from time to time to answer technical questions it is becoming impossible for us to monitor the level of traffic on this site as well as the games offical forum at Slitherine.
 
If you have any gameplay related questions, suggestions etc. can we suggest you post them to the Commander - Europe at War forum at Slitherine as you are much more likely to get a response!
 
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=47d1a6b59cca0db9bbba1b8951d068bd 
 
 

[Dave Ferguson]

So whats the point of having a forum here at Matrix?

[JudgeDredd]

For our "general" comments about the game.

It seems pointless to have suggestions made here AND at Slitherine....no point in reading the same info over and over...in fact I see the same point mentioned again and again on these threads...imagine what the devs have to read through both here AND at Slitherine.

I'm fine with the one place for suggestions, but might I suggest that's refined further by introducing a sticky thread AT Slitherine asking specifically for suggestions?

Also, Matrix, it may be helpful if you post a sticky here with a link suggestion where game suggestions should be posted...nothing more annoying than having to type the same thing over and over.....well....except reading the same thing over and over! [:D]

[IainMcNeil]

Matrix have their own copy protection & payment system so they want to offer tech support - in fact we're not able to help with that. There is also a strong community here and many people prefer to stay in one place rather than visit each games own forum. We understand this and its not a problem, just that we are unable to keep track of our own busy forums as well as this increasingly busy forum!

[IainMcNeil]

I prefer suggestions to be posted in a separate threads, each for discussion on its own merits. Super threads get unweildy after a while. Feel free to drop by just to post suggestions. If you want to report any bugs on our forum then that will also help us a lot!

[Dave Ferguson]

Ah! So game suggestions and technical game issues, bugs etc at Slitherine and general discussion AAR's here at Matrix?
 
I agree duplication should be avoided.

[IainMcNeil]

It's up to you. Until now our forum was always the place for discussion of our games. We have AAR's, hints, tips, generals dicussions as well We have a different publisher in each country. Matrix is the North American publisher for the game. Currently in development are Russian, Spanish, German, Polish, French & Italian versions. We're still looking for volunteers to help translate the French & Italian versions. If anyone is intersted just let us know

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: jynx11

Just my 2 cents but after playing a handful of wargames I just find that stacking other then maybe air units sucks.  My reason is I hate cutting through loads and loads of units in a capital for example.  I could see maybe adding stacking but only of different types like 1 armor, one corp for an added defense or attack bonus but other then that I am not a big fan of stacking.  I understand I am probably the minority here but just my 2 cents.

I understand what you're saying here, but I'm still for stacking...I don't have this game (YET), but from what I've read people are enjoying it regardless of stacking and that's fine, but I still think it would add more (I hate to say this) "realism" into the game...for a game of this type--sweeping strategic maneuvers, armored punches into the enemy rear, etc. etc., you absolutely should be able to concentrate a large amount of units in a small area.

That being said, I'm NOT talking about HUGE stacks of units, that's obviously contrary to the spirit and design of the game. I'm saying maybe a maximum of two or three ground units, maybe something like what you're saying, 1 armored, 1 infantry. Just something to give you the ability to concentrate your forces...I don't think it would make this game too complicated either...

My 2 cents.

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm with you on stacking.

And the game, at this scale, does not require stacking imo

The lack of stacking causes many difficulties. Attacks have to be preplanned in sequence very, very carefully or routes to and hexes next to enemies will be quickly blocked by your own units. Air units get pushed out of range by ground units that need proximity to the border to reach a target on the first turn of attack. Osolo is a particular nuisance. The battleship that bombards it blocks the transport from getting access to it, forcing you to land your troops so far away it takes several turns to get them adjacent to the city after landing. Stacking should at least be alloed for air, land and naval in the same hex with another provision for naval combat to stack with naval transport units.

There should be a provision for retreatinmg after combat in addition to advancing, That way limited frontage around important cities that HAVE to fall for your attack to succeed can be freed up for second wave attackers.

Exactly. There's just all these goofy things you have to do that could be eliminated by simply allowing at least one other unit to stack with another.