PzB vs Wobbly - Clash of Steel

[veji1]

no no no no no non no...

Don't ruin your good pilots and planes on an escort mission... That negates lots of their qualities...  If you ever were to do that, then it would have to be 200 Reppus, not 80...

I say keep em ready for mother of all battles number 47... Prepare them for the great fight, and then burnem..

[skrewball]

I would think...why would you want to waste these planes in the "Mother of all battles"? Your still going to lose. Japan lost the war. In the end the Japanese wanted to do the most damage possible. If you torch alot of CVE's in the south, Andy will be forced to dispatch CVs to cover. Or he'll pull out the navy all together in order to allow his LBA to handle it. Cause him to react, don't throw yourself on his sword all in the hopes you will break it. 

[PzB74]

Thx Nik. I think the game mechanics that allowed me to capture India allowed Andy to be back in Malaya!
Shoestring operations are easly doable, but the more the game escalates the greater the losses become.

A bit surprised that Andy didn't go back to India - that would be the 'morale' victory so much needed by the Allied Fanboys
and released a lot of assets.

I have a lot of semi trained Zeke Daitais. When they are upgraded to the A7M2 we will certainly send some to the DEI.
Remember that the Shinden should become operational within a couple of months.

Range could be an issue though; Shinden 2 and Reppu 4(5) means that the Shinden will become a defensive interceptor only while
the Reppu has to escort our bombers together with Franks, Tonys and Oscars.

It's the location of the next mother of all battles that will be decisive. If Andy jumps too far, we will get an opportunity to hurt him big time. The question is; What do we do if he lands in the Marianas, Formosa or PI's? Our Navy isn't strong enough for independent operations outside of LBA support and I need to keep a lot of ac and reserves in the Home Islands.

My hope is that Reppus on CAP will protect inland bases from B-29 attacks and allow other units to strike back against the invader. Too many 'What ifs' for now, have to wait and see what Andy does.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Thx Nik. I think the game mechanics that allowed me to capture India allowed Andy to be back in Malaya!
Shoestring operations are easly doable, but the more the game escalates the greater the losses become.

A bit surprised that Andy didn't go back to India - that would be the 'morale' victory so much needed by the Allied Fanboys
and released a lot of assets.

Yes, first off there's the necessary evil of abstracted supply. (would we really have time to deal with supply specifics in a game this size??!! would we want too at all?) It of itself is not too bad a feature, but when combined with the unlimited ability to load/unload at any port (even a size 0) thats what makes mass invasions in distant shores possible. Imagine trying to support a distant invasion of India or Malaya if your ports could only handle so much incoming supply per day. (like with Rommell in Africa!)

Then there's the tough one.....landing craft. Another abstraction and possibly a necessary one again due to player management overload and yet i've always felt this was the weakest aspect of Gary's PacWar games. All the work i've been doing on the NM Guad scenario with Joe has highlighted the game cracking aspects of unlimited amphib ability combined with other abstractions (like air transport) have on trying to represent a historical situation with limitations on player choices and abilities.

I do think a future WitP type product should more specifically represent landing craft as every book i've read from the Atlantic, to the Med, to the Pacific stresses three things....Landing craft.....landing craft....and more landing craft. There were never enough and they were the ultimate bottleneck that squeleched or limited most amphib campaign attempts.

On the bright side though, despite he abstractions in this game, I think Andy made a big boo boo in "leaping" to Malaya due to that distance. Despite the eases mentioned that allowed him to pull it off, the difficulties of such a leap combined with your stellar and patient gameplay have really made him pay and pay hard for his moves. So while the game makes it easier than RL to do what we've been seeing, it still teaches at the same time the risks involved in such a thing if there's a good enough player at the helm.

(me....i'd have probably made a mess of it [;)] )

[anarchyintheuk]

Sorry to go ot but . . . . imho you can't limit amphib capability w/o stacking limits, revision of the atoll shock rule and/or limiting reinforcement capability.

Don't really have a problem w/ the Malaya attack, by late '44-early '45 the allied oob has a shite load of troops (less in this case obviously), might as well use them somewhere. I guess Andy could have just saved them all up to launch 15div amphib rinse and repeat assaults up the marianas and iwo. If I ever play a future pbem, I'll know to do just that. In any event he would have suffered a lot less w/ more historical USN pilot replacement and hellcat production/starting date.

Hitting either Malaya or the Phillipines allowed him to use his lba for once, use another pilot pool, reduce or restrict resource and oil transport to Japan (whether reducing Japanese industry/resources was possible or worth it at that point is another subject) and accumulate vps (although they don't matter in this game).

Just my two cents.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Sorry to go ot but . . . . imho you can't limit amphib capability w/o stacking limits, revision of the atoll shock rule and/or limiting reinforcement capability.

ah, but thats where unload/loading restrictions come in to play. artificial stacking limits come with their own set of problems but if you land a bunch of troops beyond the ability to support them with supply, that imposes a stacking limit all of it's own.

[AmiralLaurent]

Nik listed IMOO the most important defects of the modelization done by GG (and friends) with the land battle model.

Some modelization of the size of port and beaches, giving the maximum unloading capacity per day (in number of unloaded supplies) will be fine.

Another thing I would like will be "naval flotillas" for small ships. As they are air squadrons operating from CV, there will be barge flotillas operating from APA and other ships transformed for amphibious warfare. So an AP will only be able to ferry troops from one port to another, or will need a local barge flotilla to unload, while an APA may land troops on a beach. Of course, LST, LCI and so on will also be able to do so. Same for AK/AKA. And so the real difficulty in mountig amphibious operations with limited amphibious ships will be in the game. Of course a number of AP/AK in the Japanese fleet will be promoted to APA/AKA (those who had barges) and it will be possible to convert an AP to an APA and and AK to an AKA.

Another side effect of this is that if small ships (barges, PT, pocket subs) are treated like that, they should be based either at a port or "aboard" a ship and so their range won't be "unlimited" as it is now...

As for supplies, well I would like to see at least several kinds of supplies: one generic for food, clothes, etc... that may be found "everywhere" (used to keep units fed and raise morale, and to build forts), and at least one for military operations that will be produced only by industry, so you will need to bring far more supplies to the frontline. Even better will be to see several kinds of military supplies, one per country (China, USA, Japan, Commonwealth), or one per service (USN, USAAF, IJN, IJA, IJAAF, etc...). So you will no longer be able to operate US bombers from China if you had not shipped in US or USAAF military supplies. And a base without IJNAF supplies will not be able to launch Betties with torpedoes.

Back to the Reppu subject, PzB, IMOO you should try to concentrate them. I won't use them in DEI but will rather build a strong airforce in Japan.

[aztez]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Sorry to go ot but . . . . imho you can't limit amphib capability w/o stacking limits, revision of the atoll shock rule and/or limiting reinforcement capability.

ah, but thats where unload/loading restrictions come in to play. artificial stacking limits come with their own set of problems but if you land a bunch of troops beyond the ability to support them with supply, that imposes a stacking limit all of it's own.

The game seems to have no stacking limits on Atolls with level 9 forts... Japan can place 70 000 men there and it is better than maginot line... there is your problem there.

It ain't all easy and sweet for Allies either. (As sometimes reading the board rants seems to indicate)

Anyway, keep the game going... it is almost to an end. [:)]

[Nikademus]

agreed on the Reppu. Concentrate and strike just like JoeW did vs. Moses using Tonys and Tojos. Another morale blow!

[PzB74]

Thx for the input guys!

Undoubtedly there is room for improvements.
In the early phase of the game meachanics work well enough. Allies doesn't have the ability to stack
atolls and small bases with 50k troops.

In 1942 when I invaded India I did so within support of LBA from Rangoon. Never performed any truly deep strikes.
When the tables turn the model doesn't work as well anymore and is dependent on House Rules.

A hypothetical question:
If Japan made 50k men available for the defense of Iwo Jima, would this have been possible and would the
Americans have been able to capture it?

My suggestion would be to rate each island and atoll according to size 1-10.
Each level would be able to support a certain amount of troops. Exceeding the support levels should cause severe
penalties.

Let's say Iwo Jima is rated as a size 4 island with a max fort level of 7, able to support 20k troops.
US player would have to soften up this 'hot potato' before invading. Heavy air and sea bombardments should be
able to reduce forts. Landings would have to be performed in waves with each wave inflicting casualties on defenders.
When 1st USMC Div becomes depleted, it has to be evacuated and the 3rd USMC Div will be landed to replace it.
Over a period of 4 weeks Iwo would slowly be reduced at heavy cost to both sides.

This solution is relatively simple and even though the game doesn't support it, it would be possible to produce a chart
over all the bases in the game and divide them into types and provide them with limitations in regards to number of defending
troops, supplies and fortification levels.

A non-tech solution perhaps, but maybe the inclution of rule charts would be an easy and realistic way to improve the game?
All other physical game improvements would also be great, but it's doubtful whether Matrix will ever invest this much time and effort into an already aging game.

The side with air and sea supremacy should be able to decide who eventually wins control over a base.
An isolated defender should at best be able to delay the inevitable against overwhelming superiority.

Of course there are other things I think have to be dealt with:
1) the Uber CAP has to be dealt with.
2) stacking rules applied for airfields and maybe carriers. 25 ac pr AF size would be sensible.
3) Bombardments have to be made less efficient.
4) Transport ac should be less able to fly in reinforcements when facing enemy CAP and suffer much heavier losses. At current I don't think troops are lost when transport AC are shot down [&:]
5) Heavy bombers should require at minimum a size 5 og 6 field to operate efficiently, 7 for B-29's.
6) Air units with morale below 25 should be considered grounded. (Beatings will continue until morale improves!-)

Regarding the Reppu, I just don't understand why Allied doesn't get the Bearcat [&:]
Would truly like to see it in the game as the first units was on their way to the battle on the USS Langley on the 16th of August when Japan surrendered.

[aztez]

Excellent ideas for improvements. Those kind of changes would help both sides. [:)]
 
Keep up the AAR... you have done good job.

[PzB74]

I think improvements have to come mostly in form of mods and house rules Aztez!
It's too late for this game, that's for sure [:'(]

Monster attacks by B-29's from 6k feet today and a huge invasion force is closing in on Iwo!?
I've ordered most of my subs to sortie and load up with mines. They will shadow the enemy TFs and
place mines in their wakes when they unload. Then it will be time to unleash our night naval bombers.
Got 50-60 with 85 exp standing by.

With Uber CAPs like this WitP isn't so funny anymore:

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 48
F6F Hellcat x 246
F4U-1 Corsair x 40
F4U-1D Corsair x 177

Would need 2000 Jap ac to get through it, so I'll dig up some more kamis [8|]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/09/45

Night Air Combat

Night Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 13
C6N1-S Myrt x 34
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 42

Allied aircraft
P-61A Black Widow x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
C6N1-S Myrt: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-61A Black Widow: 5 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air Combat

423!! B-29s launch from Hue....were does he get enough supplies from??

Day Air attack on Camranh Bay , at 34,46

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
Spitfire XIV x 10
P-51D Mustang x 14
B-29 Superfortress x 423

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
242 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 90
Airbase supply hits 20
Runway hits 443
Port hits 18
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our strike ac had already left Bonin!

Day Air attack on Bonin , at 65,52

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 8
P-51D Mustang x 50
B-24J Liberator x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
C6N Myrt: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
134 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
289 B-29s this time; meaning that Andy dispatched some 700 B-29s in total today.

Day Air attack on Iwo Jima , at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 289

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
482 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

Airbase hits 47
Airbase supply hits 17
Runway hits 224
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
16 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 40th USA Division, at 32,38

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the most amazing complaints I get from Andy is that he doesn't feel his airstrikes
inflict enough casualties when attacking my LCUs - especially when I divide them [8|]
Sometimes I need to present him with a lot of targets, but this usually only increases casualty count if
he has enough strike ac. Ground attack missions cause way too many casualties if you ask me.

Day Air attack on 48th/A Division, at 27,39

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 59
P-51D Mustang x 9
A-26B Invader x 44
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 21

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here begins the biggest kami failure I've seen thus far! Impossible to score hits:

Day Air attack on TF at 70,54

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 22 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Kasaan Bay
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 65,54

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 30
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 43

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 48
F6F Hellcat x 246
F4U-1 Corsair x 40
F4U-1D Corsair x 177

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 30 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 42 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVL Monterey
CV Formidable
CV Saratoga
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 65,54

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 29

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 48
F6F Hellcat x 246
F4U-1 Corsair x 40
F4U-1D Corsair x 177

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 29 destroyed

Allied Ships
LST LST-220
LST LST-34
LST LST-215, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire, heavy damage <- whopping! At least we know there are troops aboard.
AP Catron

Allied ground losses:
49 casualties reported
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 67,54

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 9

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 54
F6F Hellcat x 24
F4U-1D Corsair x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 9 destroyed

Allied Ships
LCI(G) LCI(G)-373
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,47

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 21

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Mikage Maru #2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 65,50

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 14

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Tainan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 93731 troops, 967 guns, 618 vehicles, Assault Value = 2149

Defending force 59996 troops, 576 guns, 171 vehicles, Assault Value = 1313

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hold on guys!!

Ground combat at Saigon

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 131576 troops, 863 guns, 1178 vehicles, Assault Value = 2105

Defending force 17744 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 250

Allied max assault: 1843 - adjusted assault: 378

Japanese max defense: 140 - adjusted defense: 35

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
1053 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Allied ground losses:
533 casualties reported
Guns lost 10
Vehicles lost 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our blocking force south of Tavoy is holding!

Ground combat at 27,39

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 20125 troops, 169 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 511

Defending force 7526 troops, 87 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 155

Allied max assault: 990 - adjusted assault: 642

Japanese max defense: 85 - adjusted defense: 219

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
174 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Allied ground losses:
174 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy's desperate use of 400 B-29s shows that he has realised that Camranh Bay can't be
capture before the garrison at Saigon has been eliminated; which WILL take time.
This shock attack was a complete failure! [8D]

It's possible Andy want's Camranh as a B-29 base before his next invasion is launched.
Since it's already enroute he's already late....

Ground combat at Camranh Bay

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 37927 troops, 442 guns, 230 vehicles, Assault Value = 981

Defending force 40297 troops, 266 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 552

Allied max assault: 1760 - adjusted assault: 283

Japanese max defense: 522 - adjusted defense: 2445

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)

Japanese ground losses:
979 casualties reported
Guns lost 44

Allied ground losses:
1726 casualties reported
Guns lost 58
Vehicles lost 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pisanuloke

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 15314 troops, 166 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 252

Defending force 7969 troops, 60 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 178
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kompong Trach

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3768 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 79

Defending force 3687 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 44

Allied max assault: 68 - adjusted assault: 105

Japanese max defense: 30 - adjusted defense: 10

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
119 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
29 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enemy para's occupy a small island, size 1-1.

Ground combat at Sinkep Island

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 120 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied max assault: 2 - adjusted assault: 3

Japanese max defense: 0 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Sinkep Island base !!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miss, Miss, Miss

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: PzB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air Combat

423!! B-29s launch from Hue....were does he get enough supplies from??

Day Air attack on Camranh Bay , at 34,46

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
Spitfire XIV x 10
P-51D Mustang x 14
B-29 Superfortress x 423

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
242 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 90
Airbase supply hits 20
Runway hits 443
Port hits 18
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet

can´t understand such an attack. Where´s the sense in sending 400+ 4Es (not to talk about B-29s) on an airfield / port attack. He can´t damage the airfield more than 100% and this would be probably easily achieved with 150 bombers also... Better for you to see such monster attacks on one target instead of three "baby monsters" on three targets (which would all three be destroyed also! [:D])

[String]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: PzB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air Combat

423!! B-29s launch from Hue....were does he get enough supplies from??

Day Air attack on Camranh Bay , at 34,46

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
Spitfire XIV x 10
P-51D Mustang x 14
B-29 Superfortress x 423

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
242 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 90
Airbase supply hits 20
Runway hits 443
Port hits 18
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet

can´t understand such an attack. Where´s the sense in sending 400+ 4Es (not to talk about B-29s) on an airfield / port attack. He can´t damage the airfield more than 100% and this would be probably easily achieved with 150 bombers also... Better for you to see such monster attacks on one target instead of three "baby monsters" on three targets (which would all three be destroyed also! [:D])

Killing supplies.

[pauk]

that is 460 ac launched from a single AF!!!??

i wonder what size is Hue AF[:'(][X(][8|]

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: pauk


that is 460 ac launched from a single AF!!!??

i wonder what size is Hue AF[:'(][X(][8|]

7 or 8 IIRC.... Reminder to myself: don't build Hue AF.

What impresses me is the Allied supply line. No port here and in such a raid B-29 dropped more than 2000 tons of bombs, and used several hundred tons of aviation gas (even couting the short range). I wonder if Andy real had supply drop by 2500 just for this raid as it should...

[PzB74]

Supply is way to easy to accumulate...would take a massive effort to fly in enough bombs and fuels to launch such a raid.
Should remember that I've been blocking supply lines every now and then and supply has to move a long long way from Bangkok to Hue.

I didn't build Hue - left it as a size 1(5) AF. It took Andy 2-3 weeks to expand it to size 7.
And he complains about where I get all my engineers from to build forts [8|]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: PzB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air Combat

423!! B-29s launch from Hue....were does he get enough supplies from??

Day Air attack on Camranh Bay , at 34,46

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
Spitfire XIV x 10
P-51D Mustang x 14
B-29 Superfortress x 423

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
242 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 90
Airbase supply hits 20
Runway hits 443
Port hits 18
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet

can´t understand such an attack. Where´s the sense in sending 400+ 4Es (not to talk about B-29s) on an airfield / port attack. He can´t damage the airfield more than 100% and this would be probably easily achieved with 150 bombers also... Better for you to see such monster attacks on one target instead of three "baby monsters" on three targets (which would all three be destroyed also! [:D])

Killing supplies.

and still he achieved only 20 supply hits... he would kill more supply if he not attacks with all bombers at once but four times with "smaller" attacks as everytime he achieves supply hits (should probably the same in the end) but he damages the airfield 4 times 100%, not just 1 time...

[Rob Brennan UK]

Speaking of supply :-

Ground combat at Camranh Bay

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 37927 troops, 442 guns, 230 vehicles, Assault Value = 981

Defending force 40297 troops, 266 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 552

Allied max assault: 1760 - adjusted assault: 283

Japanese max defense: 522 - adjusted defense: 2445

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)

Japanese ground losses:
979 casualties reported
Guns lost 44

Allied ground losses:
1726 casualties reported
Guns lost 58
Vehicles lost 9

looks to me like a supply shortage here (possibly a big one too) . long live the japanese jungle training camps in saigon [;)]

This would also suggest that his huge B29 fleet in Hue has sucked in all avalable supply .. doubt you'll see those B29's again from Hue anythime soon (hopefully)

[aztez]

I can confirm that those B29 monster eat A LOT OF supplies.
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You might keep that in mind and maybe you get an advantage with it later on.