Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Moderator: Harpoon 3
Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Please excuse the newb questions. I must admit I haven't read the instructions from cover to cover yet, or all the forum material.. I have done searches and haven't come up with an answer so I hope people won't mind me asking here! [:)]
1/ In the messages window I get lots of varying messages. Is there a way to centre the map on what the message relates to? Often I have no idea, looking at the map, which contact was made/lost, etc. This would definitely be a wishlist improvement for a future version if it can't be done at the moment.
2/ This is a bit silly but I'm having difficulty selecting units. Sometimes I seem to have to click multiple times on something to get a box around it. It's made worse in a scenerio such as Fortune Cookie where Hong Kong is surrounded by SAM sites. To select Hong Kong for air ops I have to zoom right in every time to separate out the units on the map. Sometimes the maps get so cluttered! Is this the way it goes or do the experts have a different way of getting around this?
3/ I note you can save window layouts which is great but the size of the windows don't seem to save. The unit status box is initially drawn too small, both length and width wise, to display all the info in it. I resize it everytime but next game it's back to it's small size. Similar problem for the other windows. Is there any way (in config or anywhere) to permanently set the sizes of windows?
4/ In one scenerio I ordered 2 Tornado's to launch to intercept a ASW aircraft that seemed to be shadowing one of my SAGs. The Tornado's were about 500nm away but flew the intercept at 30m/NoE. The ASW a/c was at 10000m. I ordered the Tornado's up to high but as soon as they got there they hit the deck again. Any reason for this?
5/ What is the logic for the comptuer confirming a unit as hostile? Does it require a visual sighting? If I'm in a scenerio, fighting the French, with an unknown bogie.. click the database and find the RBE fire control means it must be a Rafale of some description.. shouldn't that be enough to confirm the target hostile? Even though the computer still shows it as 'unknown' would it be safe for me to mark it hostile and fire on it?
6/ For any future update it would be a dream to have this running on a dual monitor display! [:)]
7/ Range rings. Is there a way to set them so they only appear on the selected unit? They seem to appear for all units, which makes the map a bit of a jumble!
8/ It would be nice to be able to have the time accel reset to 1x on some events without having the staff message boxes springing up all over the screen and getting hidden behind windows. I.e, have a separate option for reset time accel on event, while still having the staff message boxes off.
9/ Do people usually play with the group display on or off? I started with it on to reduce clutter but seemed to be having aircraft disappearing on me all the time. Finally I switched group display off and saw my airbases were sending planes up all the time (CAP I presume?) The skies were suddenly full on planes! That explains where they all went! Seems to me now that I should have gruop display off.. what do others do?
I realise my suggestions are based on knowing little about the game so far and I don't expect them to be taken seriously, but they are the things that occur to me as I play.
Really enjoying playing this game. I know the interface is old but the gameplay is terrific! [:)]
1/ In the messages window I get lots of varying messages. Is there a way to centre the map on what the message relates to? Often I have no idea, looking at the map, which contact was made/lost, etc. This would definitely be a wishlist improvement for a future version if it can't be done at the moment.
2/ This is a bit silly but I'm having difficulty selecting units. Sometimes I seem to have to click multiple times on something to get a box around it. It's made worse in a scenerio such as Fortune Cookie where Hong Kong is surrounded by SAM sites. To select Hong Kong for air ops I have to zoom right in every time to separate out the units on the map. Sometimes the maps get so cluttered! Is this the way it goes or do the experts have a different way of getting around this?
3/ I note you can save window layouts which is great but the size of the windows don't seem to save. The unit status box is initially drawn too small, both length and width wise, to display all the info in it. I resize it everytime but next game it's back to it's small size. Similar problem for the other windows. Is there any way (in config or anywhere) to permanently set the sizes of windows?
4/ In one scenerio I ordered 2 Tornado's to launch to intercept a ASW aircraft that seemed to be shadowing one of my SAGs. The Tornado's were about 500nm away but flew the intercept at 30m/NoE. The ASW a/c was at 10000m. I ordered the Tornado's up to high but as soon as they got there they hit the deck again. Any reason for this?
5/ What is the logic for the comptuer confirming a unit as hostile? Does it require a visual sighting? If I'm in a scenerio, fighting the French, with an unknown bogie.. click the database and find the RBE fire control means it must be a Rafale of some description.. shouldn't that be enough to confirm the target hostile? Even though the computer still shows it as 'unknown' would it be safe for me to mark it hostile and fire on it?
6/ For any future update it would be a dream to have this running on a dual monitor display! [:)]
7/ Range rings. Is there a way to set them so they only appear on the selected unit? They seem to appear for all units, which makes the map a bit of a jumble!
8/ It would be nice to be able to have the time accel reset to 1x on some events without having the staff message boxes springing up all over the screen and getting hidden behind windows. I.e, have a separate option for reset time accel on event, while still having the staff message boxes off.
9/ Do people usually play with the group display on or off? I started with it on to reduce clutter but seemed to be having aircraft disappearing on me all the time. Finally I switched group display off and saw my airbases were sending planes up all the time (CAP I presume?) The skies were suddenly full on planes! That explains where they all went! Seems to me now that I should have gruop display off.. what do others do?
I realise my suggestions are based on knowing little about the game so far and I don't expect them to be taken seriously, but they are the things that occur to me as I play.
Really enjoying playing this game. I know the interface is old but the gameplay is terrific! [:)]
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
ORIGINAL: Banquet
Please excuse the newb questions. I must admit I haven't read the instructions from cover to cover yet, or all the forum material.. I have done searches and haven't come up with an answer so I hope people won't mind me asking here! [:)]
5/ What is the logic for the comptuer confirming a unit as hostile? Does it require a visual sighting? If I'm in a scenerio, fighting the French, with an unknown bogie.. click the database and find the RBE fire control means it must be a Rafale of some description.. shouldn't that be enough to confirm the target hostile? Even though the computer still shows it as 'unknown' would it be safe for me to mark it hostile and fire on it?
Really enjoying playing this game. I know the interface is old but the gameplay is terrific! [:)]
Ask away [:)], when you get your head torn off, you know you've gone too far.
A visual sighting is not strictly required for a contact to be classified as hostile, if you detect it firing weapons at you it will be indicated as hostile [;)]. As for my play style, if I find Rafale specific emissions and I'm fighting the French, I mark that sucker hostile immediately. Of course I lose about 25% of the scenarios I play because I take out neutral units (they shouldn't have been there in my war zone <g>). But yes, in cases such as you laid out, most certainly mark the contact as hostile and fire when ready.
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Tony, thanks for replying.
So if I understand it correctly only a visual sighting or an offensive launch will tag a unit as hostile?
Your comments do confirm my experiences so far, that if you wait for the computer to mark a hostile, chances are you're dead already.. gotta take some risks!
In a game tonight where an 'unknown' (which was displaying all the characteristics of being a Super Etendard) was approaching one of my SAGs, I finally decided - 'enough is enough, now you're too close for comfort' - and ordered a SAM launch.. just as I was doing that it launched against me - presumably an exocet, although it was never ID'd. I wished then I'd been brave enough to make that call earlier. Moot point, in the end.. as non of my ships had anything that could take it out.. but it teaches a lesson.. if it quacks like duck, and looks like a duck... kill it!
I'm really glad I bought H3:ANW.. I'd been undecided since it was released in ANW format but it's sucked me right in.. fingernails are suffering as a result.. but great game! [:)]
So if I understand it correctly only a visual sighting or an offensive launch will tag a unit as hostile?
Your comments do confirm my experiences so far, that if you wait for the computer to mark a hostile, chances are you're dead already.. gotta take some risks!
In a game tonight where an 'unknown' (which was displaying all the characteristics of being a Super Etendard) was approaching one of my SAGs, I finally decided - 'enough is enough, now you're too close for comfort' - and ordered a SAM launch.. just as I was doing that it launched against me - presumably an exocet, although it was never ID'd. I wished then I'd been brave enough to make that call earlier. Moot point, in the end.. as non of my ships had anything that could take it out.. but it teaches a lesson.. if it quacks like duck, and looks like a duck... kill it!
I'm really glad I bought H3:ANW.. I'd been undecided since it was released in ANW format but it's sucked me right in.. fingernails are suffering as a result.. but great game! [:)]
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
ORIGINAL: Banquet
Please excuse the newb questions. I must admit I haven't read the instructions from cover to cover yet, or all the forum material.. I have done searches and haven't come up with an answer so I hope people won't mind me asking here! [:)]
Not at all Banquet, please feel free to ask away. I'd rather have people asking questions than condemning the game outright before they give it a go.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
1/ In the messages window I get lots of varying messages. Is there a way to centre the map on what the message relates to? Often I have no idea, looking at the map, which contact was made/lost, etc. This would definitely be a wishlist improvement for a future version if it can't be done at the moment.
Not as yet although maybe we should look into that as we develop the game further and head towards instituting a new UI - User Interface. It's a good idea and may help people starting out to come to grips with what's going on.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
2/ This is a bit silly but I'm having difficulty selecting units. Sometimes I seem to have to click multiple times on something to get a box around it. It's made worse in a scenerio such as Fortune Cookie where Hong Kong is surrounded by SAM sites. To select Hong Kong for air ops I have to zoom right in every time to separate out the units on the map. Sometimes the maps get so cluttered! Is this the way it goes or do the experts have a different way of getting around this?
I think I know what your problem is in this case. May I ask if you have your map zoomed in so the window is filled with the units you are trying to select? As you zoom into units etc, you will find that clicking on the visible icon may not select that unit. Move the cursor slightly below the icon or step the map back a few magnifications (X hotkey) and you should be able to select the units you wish to.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
3/ I note you can save window layouts which is great but the size of the windows don't seem to save. The unit status box is initially drawn too small, both length and width wise, to display all the info in it. I resize it everytime but next game it's back to it's small size. Similar problem for the other windows. Is there any way (in config or anywhere) to permanently set the sizes of windows?
I understand this in relation to intially opening the scenario, especially the ODB scens (stock scenarios). Are you saying, that even when you save a game and resume it later the windows have all resized to the same dimensions as when you initially opened the scenario?
If so try this. Arrange the windows how you want them and then, select the Window drop down menu->select Window Schemes -> Save Scheme. Give this a try and if it's stll not working let me know and I'll look into it further for you.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
4/ In one scenerio I ordered 2 Tornado's to launch to intercept a ASW aircraft that seemed to be shadowing one of my SAGs. The Tornado's were about 500nm away but flew the intercept at 30m/NoE. The ASW a/c was at 10000m. I ordered the Tornado's up to high but as soon as they got there they hit the deck again. Any reason for this?
May I ask for some further information on this one? From what you're describing the Tornados sound like they are behaving as if they are the attack version of the aircraft and not the ADV type. if I could have the name of the scenario and the database you are using so I can run this one myself?
ORIGINAL: Banquet
5/ What is the logic for the comptuer confirming a unit as hostile? Does it require a visual sighting? If I'm in a scenerio, fighting the French, with an unknown bogie.. click the database and find the RBE fire control means it must be a Rafale of some description.. shouldn't that be enough to confirm the target hostile? Even though the computer still shows it as 'unknown' would it be safe for me to mark it hostile and fire on it?
Command is a lonely job. What you are facing here is just one example of the types of decisions a naval commander has to make. Welcome to the world of modern naval combat... So far you have done everything correctly, checked the bogey's emmissions confirming that you are up against a Rafale. Based on the information you have at hand what would you do? Well I wouldn't be waiting for the computer system on the ship to make the decisions for me. You could always revert to using the executive decision maker i.e. toss a coin... [;)]
ORIGINAL: Banquet
6/ For any future update it would be a dream to have this running on a dual monitor display! [:)]
I seem to remember seeing a copule of posts here at the Matrix forum about people doing this a while back. Sorry I'm no help on this one.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
7/ Range rings. Is there a way to set them so they only appear on the selected unit? They seem to appear for all units, which makes the map a bit of a jumble!
No, unfortunately there's not. However there is a way around this I believe. Try this out and see if it helps your situation. Using the F10 hotkey create a new zoom window. I normally make three; ASW, ASuW and AAW windows. I simply turn on the appropriate range rings for each of these windows. If I'm hunting a sub contact I will open the ASW window which has the ASW and Sonar sensor range rings displayed. It's not exactly what you're looking for but should overcome the problem you are having to some degree.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
8/ It would be nice to be able to have the time accel reset to 1x on some events without having the staff message boxes springing up all over the screen and getting hidden behind windows. I.e, have a separate option for reset time accel on event, while still having the staff message boxes off.
I tend to play with just the "New Contact" message window activated and only turn on the others when required. This stops the issue with large numbers of windows appearing, but doesn't exactly fix your issue. I can't make any promises, but we can certain look at this moving into the future.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
9/ Do people usually play with the group display on or off? I started with it on to reduce clutter but seemed to be having aircraft disappearing on me all the time. Finally I switched group display off and saw my airbases were sending planes up all the time (CAP I presume?) The skies were suddenly full on planes! That explains where they all went! Seems to me now that I should have gruop display off.. what do others do?
You're seeing this because you have the "Formation Air Patrols" being run by the game engine. You can switch this off using either the H3 Launcher, in which case none of you aircraft will be part of the group in future games you play or you can set it for your current H3 session using the Settings drop down menu. In this case the engine will not control your bases' aircraft during your current session. Next time you satrt the game you would have to reset this if you don't want your aircraft dissappearing.
ORIGINAL: Banquet
I realise my suggestions are based on knowing little about the game so far and I don't expect them to be taken seriously, but they are the things that occur to me as I play.
Really enjoying playing this game. I know the interface is old but the gameplay is terrific! [:)]
I hope you continue to enjoy it Banquet and if you have any further questions please feel free to fire away.
Cheers
Darren
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Multiple Monitors, start at about http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1352909# and read down from there.
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
1/ In the messages window I get lots of varying messages. Is there a way to centre the map on what the message relates to? Often I have no idea, looking at the map, which contact was made/lost, etc. This would definitely be a wishlist improvement for a future version if it can't be done at the moment.
Not as yet although maybe we should look into that as we develop the game further and head towards instituting a new UI - User Interface. It's a good idea and may help people starting out to come to grips with what's going on.
This would be my biggest wishlist item. I've given up trying to locate new contacts in some of the larger scenerio's.. but when I get a Vampire call I am desperately scrolling around trying to find what's going on, and where!
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
2/ This is a bit silly but I'm having difficulty selecting units. Sometimes I seem to have to click multiple times on something to get a box around it. It's made worse in a scenerio such as Fortune Cookie where Hong Kong is surrounded by SAM sites. To select Hong Kong for air ops I have to zoom right in every time to separate out the units on the map. Sometimes the maps get so cluttered! Is this the way it goes or do the experts have a different way of getting around this?
I think I know what your problem is in this case. May I ask if you have your map zoomed in so the window is filled with the units you are trying to select? As you zoom into units etc, you will find that clicking on the visible icon may not select that unit. Move the cursor slightly below the icon or step the map back a few magnifications (X hotkey) and you should be able to select the units you wish to.
Yes, that sounds like my problem. Thanks for the suggestions, it's definitely helped!
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
3/ I note you can save window layouts which is great but the size of the windows don't seem to save. The unit status box is initially drawn too small, both length and width wise, to display all the info in it. I resize it everytime but next game it's back to it's small size. Similar problem for the other windows. Is there any way (in config or anywhere) to permanently set the sizes of windows?
I understand this in relation to intially opening the scenario, especially the ODB scens (stock scenarios). Are you saying, that even when you save a game and resume it later the windows have all resized to the same dimensions as when you initially opened the scenario?
If so try this. Arrange the windows how you want them and then, select the Window drop down menu->select Window Schemes -> Save Scheme. Give this a try and if it's stll not working let me know and I'll look into it further for you.
Loading a saved scenario is fine. It's just when beginning a new scenerio. I've just tested this again and it's only the Unit Status window that's not resizing to where I had it. The Tactical and Incoming messages windows do remember how I re-sized them when I load the scheme. It's no biggie though.
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
4/ In one scenerio I ordered 2 Tornado's to launch to intercept a ASW aircraft that seemed to be shadowing one of my SAGs. The Tornado's were about 500nm away but flew the intercept at 30m/NoE. The ASW a/c was at 10000m. I ordered the Tornado's up to high but as soon as they got there they hit the deck again. Any reason for this?
May I ask for some further information on this one? From what you're describing the Tornados sound like they are behaving as if they are the attack version of the aircraft and not the ADV type. if I could have the name of the scenario and the database you are using so I can run this one myself?
This was a scenerio from the PlayersDB 7.4.7 It was the Anglo European War scenario. The Tornado's were launched from Benbecula and must have been Tornado F3's (as that's all that's there) but subsequent missions and intercepts flew out at VHigh so I maybe did something wrong, or it was a one off oddity.
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
5/ What is the logic for the comptuer confirming a unit as hostile? Does it require a visual sighting? If I'm in a scenerio, fighting the French, with an unknown bogie.. click the database and find the RBE fire control means it must be a Rafale of some description.. shouldn't that be enough to confirm the target hostile? Even though the computer still shows it as 'unknown' would it be safe for me to mark it hostile and fire on it?
Command is a lonely job. What you are facing here is just one example of the types of decisions a naval commander has to make. Welcome to the world of modern naval combat... So far you have done everything correctly, checked the bogey's emmissions confirming that you are up against a Rafale. Based on the information you have at hand what would you do? Well I wouldn't be waiting for the computer system on the ship to make the decisions for me. You could always revert to using the executive decision maker i.e. toss a coin... [;)]
Toss a coin [:D] Thanks, this is as Tony confirmed above. It does seem realistic and all adds to the tension of decision making in the game. Part of what makes it so interesting to play!
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
7/ Range rings. Is there a way to set them so they only appear on the selected unit? They seem to appear for all units, which makes the map a bit of a jumble!
No, unfortunately there's not. However there is a way around this I believe. Try this out and see if it helps your situation. Using the F10 hotkey create a new zoom window. I normally make three; ASW, ASuW and AAW windows. I simply turn on the appropriate range rings for each of these windows. If I'm hunting a sub contact I will open the ASW window which has the ASW and Sonar sensor range rings displayed. It's not exactly what you're looking for but should overcome the problem you are having to some degree.
Excellent idea! Cheers, I will use that.
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
8/ It would be nice to be able to have the time accel reset to 1x on some events without having the staff message boxes springing up all over the screen and getting hidden behind windows. I.e, have a separate option for reset time accel on event, while still having the staff message boxes off.
I tend to play with just the "New Contact" message window activated and only turn on the others when required. This stops the issue with large numbers of windows appearing, but doesn't exactly fix your issue. I can't make any promises, but we can certain look at this moving into the future.
I've since realised the enter key is an immediate 1x accel, so that helps a lot. I do have trouble speeding up/slowing down time though. If I click on the main map, the game status window seems no longer to respond.. I have to click on it first, and then hit plus or minus for time accel to work. Is this something you find? Otherwise it might be linked to having dual monitors?
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
9/ Do people usually play with the group display on or off? I started with it on to reduce clutter but seemed to be having aircraft disappearing on me all the time. Finally I switched group display off and saw my airbases were sending planes up all the time (CAP I presume?) The skies were suddenly full on planes! That explains where they all went! Seems to me now that I should have gruop display off.. what do others do?
You're seeing this because you have the "Formation Air Patrols" being run by the game engine. You can switch this off using either the H3 Launcher, in which case none of you aircraft will be part of the group in future games you play or you can set it for your current H3 session using the Settings drop down menu. In this case the engine will not control your bases' aircraft during your current session. Next time you satrt the game you would have to reset this if you don't want your aircraft dissappearing.
Thanks - That is a case of RTFM.. I should have noticed that before posting! I'm quite happy to turn off Formation Air Patrols, but quite like having the ASW Helo's handled for me on the CTF's and SAG's. I haven't tried it yet but I assume turning off Formation Air Patrols also turns off the helo's? I guess I'll have to get used to managing that myself.
ORIGINAL: Bucks
ORIGINAL: Banquet
I realise my suggestions are based on knowing little about the game so far and I don't expect them to be taken seriously, but they are the things that occur to me as I play.
Really enjoying playing this game. I know the interface is old but the gameplay is terrific! [:)]
I hope you continue to enjoy it Banquet and if you have any further questions please feel free to fire away.
Cheers
Darren
Thanks Darren, I appreciate you taking the time help me out. Some great tips for me there, which I will be trying out tonight! [:)]
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
ORIGINAL: TonyE
Multiple Monitors, start at about http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1352909# and read down from there.
Great stuff, Tony! Thanks, I will be trying that out as well! [:)]
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Just a further quick question.. Playing the Malvinas II scenerio in the Standard DB, at the start I get a message saying 'Tralfalgar's batteries are low'
I know pressing 'r' will bring the sub to PD for a re-charge.. but where do you find the charge level of batteries on a sub.. can't see it anywhere in unit status or report?
Also, as a Nuclear sub should it need to charge batteries? Finally.. I think it's a typo.. spelt Tralfalgar.. shoulr be Trafalgar?
I know pressing 'r' will bring the sub to PD for a re-charge.. but where do you find the charge level of batteries on a sub.. can't see it anywhere in unit status or report?
Also, as a Nuclear sub should it need to charge batteries? Finally.. I think it's a typo.. spelt Tralfalgar.. shoulr be Trafalgar?
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Sorry, another question!!
In the formation editor clicking 'CPU' doesn't seem to be handing the ship to the computer. I do already have the formations option ticked under staff assistance, but it the manual it states CPU hands the ship AND air assets over to the computer. There's no sign the air assets (helo's) are being used by the computer.
This would be quite useful to get helo capable ships to deal with their own ASW helo's, without having airbases launching aircraft when formation air patrols is ticked. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
In the formation editor clicking 'CPU' doesn't seem to be handing the ship to the computer. I do already have the formations option ticked under staff assistance, but it the manual it states CPU hands the ship AND air assets over to the computer. There's no sign the air assets (helo's) are being used by the computer.
This would be quite useful to get helo capable ships to deal with their own ASW helo's, without having airbases launching aircraft when formation air patrols is ticked. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
ORIGINAL: Banquet
Just a further quick question.. Playing the Malvinas II scenerio in the Standard DB, at the start I get a message saying 'Tralfalgar's batteries are low'
I know pressing 'r' will bring the sub to PD for a re-charge.. but where do you find the charge level of batteries on a sub.. can't see it anywhere in unit status or report?
Also, as a Nuclear sub should it need to charge batteries? Finally.. I think it's a typo.. spelt Tralfalgar.. shoulr be Trafalgar?
Trying to keep me busy mate? [;)]
Nice pickup Banquet, you've found your first genuine issue. Many nuclear powered submarines have a battery rating given in the miniatures version of the game. This is for when you have a reactor critical or it shuts down for what ever reason. Unfortunately we can't use this at present in our version of the game. The game engine defaults to electric motors. In this case the electric propulsion system on the Trafalgar has been removed (they don't work anyway on Nuc boats). Unfortunately the battery fuel has not been removed and the sub is trying to utilise fuel it has no propulsion system for.
I'll enter this into the AGSI bug tracking system and make sure this is gone before the next update.
Thanks in advance
Darren
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
heh, sorry Darren. I'll try and calm it down a bit. Just really enjoying the game at the moment and sooo many questions.. if u think I'm asking a lot here.. u don't wanna see how many I'm searching for in the manual and various forums.. Every time I play to try and get things straight in my head I end up with more questions.. Anyway, appreciate your help.. keep up the good work! [&o]
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Banquet, I was having a lend of you mate.[:)]
As I said please feel free to ask away. My personal opinion is for everyone like you we have 100's? of people who for what ever reason wont ask the simple questions. I doubt I'm just helping you and regardless, you have already helped the development team out with a couple of these issues.
Cheers
Darren
As I said please feel free to ask away. My personal opinion is for everyone like you we have 100's? of people who for what ever reason wont ask the simple questions. I doubt I'm just helping you and regardless, you have already helped the development team out with a couple of these issues.
Cheers
Darren
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases
http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm
Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************
RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Thanks Darren, I know you were kidding [:)]
Which is handy as I'm about ready to ask another 100 questions! [:D]
Which is handy as I'm about ready to ask another 100 questions! [:D]
- FransKoenz
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- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:01 am
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RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
BIG Banner............[:D]
I guess we can look forward to a modern "Harpoon" version of the Conquest of the Aegean?

I guess we can look forward to a modern "Harpoon" version of the Conquest of the Aegean?

RE: Interface + gameplay observations/questions
Well, you know what they say about people with big banners! 
I might do a banner for Harpoon.. just have to work out how to play it first!

I might do a banner for Harpoon.. just have to work out how to play it first!
Missions useful?
I'd be grateful for anyone's opinion on missions!
Tonight I thought I'd really concentrate on becoming familiar with missions. I tried the 'To Protect the Queen' scenario and was really impressed with the way missions are set up. Using the 1/3 rule I set up 2 CAP area's for the Tornado's out of Manchester. 10 Tornado's to each CAP area.. and was chuffed to see 2 groups of 3 take off and head to their area's.
During the course of the game the position of the Russian carrier group became obvious from the amount of probable MIG29 contact reports springing up and the group entered the Tornado's CAP area. As the ranges closed I got a vampire call but my Tornado's had not launched back so I hit the attack button and noted I was in range to fire AMRAAMS.. which I did. Two of the first group of Tornado's got shot down, but took out 1 MIG29. The second group of Tornado's took out 3 MIG29's for 2 losses. Later another group of 3 Tornado's took out 4 MIG29's for 1 loss. Not too shabby.. but I had basically issued the fire orders for nearly all the missile launches from my planes.. I wondered, should I need to do this? The missions seem to work pretty well and are supposed to automated?
So I re-ran the scenario and this time didn't interfere or issue any orders. The first group of Tornado's were all shot down for no kills on the MIG29's.. I think they only launched literally 1 or 2 AMRAAMs. The 2nd CAP group of Tornado's were actually flying away from the MIG29's. Last time I vectored them in but this time I left them alone - only to watch all 3 get shot down without even trying to turn and fight! Now I can only imagine they knew the MIGs were there because they were the only units in the area capable of giving me location reports on them and what they were doing.
So I've read around the forums a bit and found other people don't always trust the missions but this seems a great shame to me as it would be great to know you could set up these missions and let them run with minimal involvment while I concentrated on winning the scenario.
I could understand the lack of performance if it was another question of 'well, it's the AI, what do you expect from the AI' - that would be a fair point. But then I remember that the MIG29's are AI as well! And they are doing pretty well!
I realise a MIG29 is a better air combat platform that a Tornado but this doesn't explain how, without my involvement, they were launching missiles like there was no tomorrow while my Tornado pilots couldn't seem to remember where the button was to launch theirs!
The only thing I can think of is I'd set the mission parameters to Radar Intermittent.. but surely once they'd got in range of the MIGs and detected them they'd switch the radar on all the time? Or should I have set radar to full on for the mission?
If this is a problem with the missions then another wishlist item for me would be to give friendly mission AI the same capability as enemy mission AI. I wouldn't mind if you could do a bit better by micromanaging - but it shouldn't make the difference between getting a marginal victory' and getting slaughted, surely?
Any advice would be appreciated
Tonight I thought I'd really concentrate on becoming familiar with missions. I tried the 'To Protect the Queen' scenario and was really impressed with the way missions are set up. Using the 1/3 rule I set up 2 CAP area's for the Tornado's out of Manchester. 10 Tornado's to each CAP area.. and was chuffed to see 2 groups of 3 take off and head to their area's.
During the course of the game the position of the Russian carrier group became obvious from the amount of probable MIG29 contact reports springing up and the group entered the Tornado's CAP area. As the ranges closed I got a vampire call but my Tornado's had not launched back so I hit the attack button and noted I was in range to fire AMRAAMS.. which I did. Two of the first group of Tornado's got shot down, but took out 1 MIG29. The second group of Tornado's took out 3 MIG29's for 2 losses. Later another group of 3 Tornado's took out 4 MIG29's for 1 loss. Not too shabby.. but I had basically issued the fire orders for nearly all the missile launches from my planes.. I wondered, should I need to do this? The missions seem to work pretty well and are supposed to automated?
So I re-ran the scenario and this time didn't interfere or issue any orders. The first group of Tornado's were all shot down for no kills on the MIG29's.. I think they only launched literally 1 or 2 AMRAAMs. The 2nd CAP group of Tornado's were actually flying away from the MIG29's. Last time I vectored them in but this time I left them alone - only to watch all 3 get shot down without even trying to turn and fight! Now I can only imagine they knew the MIGs were there because they were the only units in the area capable of giving me location reports on them and what they were doing.
So I've read around the forums a bit and found other people don't always trust the missions but this seems a great shame to me as it would be great to know you could set up these missions and let them run with minimal involvment while I concentrated on winning the scenario.
I could understand the lack of performance if it was another question of 'well, it's the AI, what do you expect from the AI' - that would be a fair point. But then I remember that the MIG29's are AI as well! And they are doing pretty well!
I realise a MIG29 is a better air combat platform that a Tornado but this doesn't explain how, without my involvement, they were launching missiles like there was no tomorrow while my Tornado pilots couldn't seem to remember where the button was to launch theirs!
The only thing I can think of is I'd set the mission parameters to Radar Intermittent.. but surely once they'd got in range of the MIGs and detected them they'd switch the radar on all the time? Or should I have set radar to full on for the mission?
If this is a problem with the missions then another wishlist item for me would be to give friendly mission AI the same capability as enemy mission AI. I wouldn't mind if you could do a bit better by micromanaging - but it shouldn't make the difference between getting a marginal victory' and getting slaughted, surely?
Any advice would be appreciated
RE: Missions useful?
Well, thinking about this today I've realised one reason my CAP missions didn't go so well when left to the computer was because the bogie's weren't classifed as hostile. I tried this again today and after marking the contacts hostile the Tornado's did fire more missiles. Still lost 6 Tornado's for only 2 MIG kills though.. so not doing great! I wish there was an option you could set for auto marking hostile if something detected onboard narrowed the possibilites down to only enemy platforms.
This made me think.. how come CAP on a AAW mission won't fire on targets not designated as hostile.. yet Tornado GR1's assigned to AsuW missions were launching against unknown surface contacts? Maybe they were going to visually ID them first.. which sounds like a receipt for disaster!
This made me think.. how come CAP on a AAW mission won't fire on targets not designated as hostile.. yet Tornado GR1's assigned to AsuW missions were launching against unknown surface contacts? Maybe they were going to visually ID them first.. which sounds like a receipt for disaster!
RE: Missions useful?
Missions are very usefull - in fact critical - for the AI. And for a designer it is very important to ensure that the AI has the right set of missions and especially recon; to see the targets as hostile and engage.
Like you I've often thought that the AI-controlled mission is somewhat more effective than a mission on the player side. Just a feeling though.
So I tend to use micromanagement as the player - and do my utmost to build smart missions as a designer for the AI! But making the AI missions really perform is very tediuos and involves calculating TOT which most players don;t bother with when playing.
Freek
Like you I've often thought that the AI-controlled mission is somewhat more effective than a mission on the player side. Just a feeling though.
So I tend to use micromanagement as the player - and do my utmost to build smart missions as a designer for the AI! But making the AI missions really perform is very tediuos and involves calculating TOT which most players don;t bother with when playing.
Freek
RE: Missions useful?
Thanks for the insight Freek 
I guess, like any game, the side being played by a human is going to be given more to do. This makes sense as most players want a decent amount of interaction.. they want play the game, not just watch it! And so some of the things the enemy AI is capable of is going to be taken away from the player side. (For example, the need to classify almost everything hostile manually)
I must admit, my preference would be to assume the role of the Admiral/Commander.. issuing orders for CAP, Strike launches, etc.. and rely on this being done effectively without being responsible for actually launching the missiles and dropping the bombs myself!
As a scenario designer can you confirm the AI 'side' is capable of designating targets as hostile in a more efficent manner than a visual ID, or a weapon launch? Can they declare hostile based on database entries for any radar/emissions detected?
I guess, like any game, the side being played by a human is going to be given more to do. This makes sense as most players want a decent amount of interaction.. they want play the game, not just watch it! And so some of the things the enemy AI is capable of is going to be taken away from the player side. (For example, the need to classify almost everything hostile manually)
I must admit, my preference would be to assume the role of the Admiral/Commander.. issuing orders for CAP, Strike launches, etc.. and rely on this being done effectively without being responsible for actually launching the missiles and dropping the bombs myself!
As a scenario designer can you confirm the AI 'side' is capable of designating targets as hostile in a more efficent manner than a visual ID, or a weapon launch? Can they declare hostile based on database entries for any radar/emissions detected?
RE: Missions useful?
The AI is generally fairly dumb with regard to designating hostiles. They'll usually wait for you to fire first or get some visual confirmation. Plenty of tricks can be used to make them more challenging. The use of invisible units is effective for scenarios where only one side is playable for example.
"Alas poor Yorick,I knew him Horatio"
#1 Quote of the Harpoon Community.



