Stacking in Computer EiA

[Russian Guard]

Apologies if this is a subject covered elsewhere -

Will computer EiA limit Corps stacking, either via maximum Commander ratings or otherwise?

Just wondering if the "monster stack" issue in regular EiA will rear it's ugly head with this game as well. Of course, there may be other elements of the game that no longer make monster stacks desireable (ie, more penalizing foraging rules, limiting supply, increasing costs of supply in larger stacks, whatever).

Any comments appreciated.

[Monadman]

There is a stack limitation of 15 counters of ANY type in any one area for each major power.

Also, Tactical Maximum Ratings are in use.

Richard

[Russian Guard]

ANY counters? Even Depots, Commanders, Cossacks, etc?

Sounds good overall but not sure if this renders Cossacks or multiple Commanders in stacks, completely undesireable. Of course maybe there are other rules changes from standard EiA that change things I'm unaware of.

Thanks kindly for your response.

[Monadman]

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


ANY counters? Even Depots, Commanders, Cossacks, etc?

Yes, any means any.

Richard

[Russian Guard]

Dictionary lesson aside, thanks for the clarification.

Wonder how that rule would work in the "board" version of the game...anyone care to chime in?

[StCyr]

ORIGINAL: Monadman

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


ANY counters? Even Depots, Commanders, Cossacks, etc?

Yes, any means any.

Richard

ANY counters? Even Depots, Commanders, Cossacks, etc?




Yes, any means any.

Would be totally redicules if it means that you have to decide between Murat or another cav coprs with your army attacking at Borodino ie...

[Mardonius]

I am not too fond of this counter limit rule as its seems to derive from the amount of space available on the computer display vice any historical, geographic, or statistical reality.

[Russian Guard]

This is the kind of discussion I was hoping would generate.

I agree that on the face of it, having to decide to include Murat (or for that matter Blucher in an Allied stack) as opposed to a Corps counter, seems silly.

Yet it MAY work in an unrealistic yet beneficial way. For example, the French could afford - given their larger Corps - to fight with fewer actual Corps and include a Depot for cheaper supply as well as a second leader (Murat), whereas the Allies would tend to want more Corps to compete with Napoleons' numbers.

Still processing this, but...maybe

[Montbrun]

Maybe Leaders should not count towards the stacking limits...

[bielius]

Hi all!

Cossacks, Guerrilla and Freikorps counters, stack together respectively (as one counter every troop type) or one by one (as various counters depending on the value of the marker)?

Thank you!

Nice work!

[j-s]

ORIGINAL: bielius

Hi all!

Cossacks, Guerrilla and Freikorps counters, stack together respectively (as one counter every troop type) or one by one (as various counters depending on the value of the marker)?

Good question!
If you play Spain and use guerillas to attack from different areas and they all will be counted as a counter, this rule will be a disaster.

Again, I don't see any point why there should be a limit. Computer can handle 15 or 30 stack, so no problem. If we want to limit stacking, there is a optional rule for depot supply (max. 4 corps/depot). This is a new rule and it should be dismissed.

[yammahoper]

My favorite optional rule that prevented common big stacks was limiting supply available from a depot to four corps maximum in a supply phase. A mass stack inside your home nation was easy, but projecting deep into an enemy nation required good planning.

yamma

[oldtimer]

Russian Guard.  I think your statement is incorrect about the stack limit working in favor of the French.  Remember the counter limit is 15 PER major power.  So Austria, Prussia, and Russia could stack 45 counters.  Lets see Prussia provides supply plus 8 unit counters and Blucher, Austria provides 9 unit counters plus Charles, Russia adds another 9 unit counters so now you have 26 unit counters plus a leader and a cav leader vs French 13 counters and a leader and cav leader or one less unit if they want a depot.

While the French will still have a lot of troops present I think numerically the "allies" have a better stacking potential.

This is based on the original comments concerning counter limits.  I am not sure if this is true if powers choose to combine move or other scenerios that may occur.  Marshall or a beta tester would be able to answer these the easiest based on play experience or test this particular scenerio.

[Russian Guard]

Oldtimer, I see your point.

If "for each Major Power" was meant specifically, as opposed to "each major power or coalition of powers", then your point is dead-on.

I assumed the former because the latter interpretation does little to stop mass stacking, especially (obviously) for coalition stacks. Not to mention, Nappy could stack with an Allied Nation (Spain, for example).

Maybe another Language Arts lesson is in order, for clarification.

If it is indeed "per Nation", then I'm not sure I see the point to this rule.

[Monadman]

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


Oldtimer, I see your point.

If "for each Major Power" was meant specifically, as opposed to "each major power or coalition of powers", then your point is dead-on.

I assumed the former because the latter interpretation does little to stop mass stacking, especially (obviously) for coalition stacks. Not to mention, Nappy could stack with an Allied Nation (Spain, for example).

Maybe another Language Arts lesson is in order, for clarification.

If it is indeed "per Nation", then I'm not sure I see the point to this rule.

Well actually Russian Guard each does not mean each (my bad). It’s a bit more complicated then that. It should read: “There is a stack limitation of 15 counters of any type in any section of a city or rural area.”

In EiANW, there are four parts of a land area that units may reside. The program identifies these areas as “Besieging Rural” and “Besieging City” for attacking units and “Rural” and “City” for non-attacking units.

In the screen shot on the left, you’ll notice that the Prussians and Austrians (allies) are stacked together in the rural section of the Dresden area and that they have reached their 15-counter limit (so neither ally can move any more units into the rural area). Meanwhile, in the screen shot on the right, the French have attacked the Prussians and Austrians and they reside in the besieging rural section of the Dresden area.

Note: even though the city could take up to 15 counters, it is highly unlikely that that will ever occur, but in this example, if Prussia wanted to, they could move a counter or two into the city of Dresden, leaving more room in the rural area.

Richard

[Russian Guard]

Ahh, Thanks for that clarification Monadman.

While I very much like the idea of limiting stacking size, this seems pro-French. Of course, that assumption is based on the fact that the French can almost always pile 15 counters that would normally be superior to any 15 counters any other force could throw together (assuming Corps capacity is the same as the board game). That's fine in principle, as it would reflect historical realities for the most part. But how can an "Allied Coalition" ever outnumber the French in a single battle?

Let's see...an Austrian/Prussian/Russian coalition could stack all of their Guard Corps (4 total if Corps are the same as in the EiA board game), another 8 Corps representing their biggest/best Corps (Prussian I Corps, Russian I Corps, etc) and throw in 2 Cav Corps and Charles. 15.

That would be a high morale Allied stack but would undoubtedly be outnumbered and moraled (is that a word?) by 15 French Corps under Napoleon, with die roll advantages going to the French.

Hmmmm.....

[carnifex]

arbitrary counter limits make me cry

hi nappy i can't move in the corps to help you because there are too many leaders in your province

--regards, grouchy

/boggle !

[donkuchi19]

I remember playing EIA as a board game and the players that made the super stacks always seemed to lose because their corps would end up having to forage and they would lose many factors that way while their opponents would avoid combat and go around the super stack and occupy all of the provinces. They may win the battles but end up losing the war because all of their provinces were conquered.

[oldtimer]

I also want to say thanks for clarifying the stacking limits as well.

This definitely gives an advantage to the French.

Lets look at this numerically. We will take 14 of the best numerical counters for the collation plus Charles. We will consider the Russians, Prussians & Austria as that is what I have seen most in the beginning of the game as stacking together.
Prussia puts in 8 corp (116I / 25C), Russia 1 Corp (18I / 2C), and Austria 5 Corp (75I / 5C) for a grand total of 209I / 32C (241 factors) and Charles would be a 4-2-6 with a -1 to die roll.

The Spanish put in 4 Corp (54I / 8C / 2G) French throw in 6 Corp, Imp Guard, 2 Cav Corp (145I / 35C / 20G) For a grand total of 199I / 43C / 22G (264 factors) Murat (CAV Pursuit bonus)& Napoleon would be a 5-3-6

This would give France Superior numbers and I prefer the -1 die roll for my opponent because it cuts back on casualties and moral loss for myself.

In the board game though the collation forces may stack to inflict maximum casualties on the French while losing a few battles thus giving them the opportunity to build faster over time and maintain a numerical superiority on the field.

With a French double move they can slaughter small stacks and then regroup.

I am not saying I am a fan of monster stacks but there are times it is necessary for the purpose of causing %casualties not to win the battle. Forcing smaller stacks can help a good French player by allowing small battles (more PP) and restacking lessoning counter-strikes.

Now I haven't seen the MEiA so it may be that the French movement flexibility is not there. This can be a serious disadvantage to the French if it is not (Same as naval movement for England) because it is French mobility that helps him fight the numerous collation units.

I am curious can the play testers comment on any of this. They are actually playing the game and perhaps based on how the game processes it actually plays well-balanced. I am assuming some of the play testers where/are avid players of the board version of EiA and have experienced a variety of strategies that enabled them to judge this.

Just my quick and dirty 2 cents. Rip my 5 minute strategy apart. [:)]

[Sardonic]

Stacking limits will favor France. It is that simple.

Because France has bigger corp.

In some games I have seen, it was not unusual to see 20+ allied corp fighting 10 or so French, just to attrit
the French.