Newbie Question: Turn Mechanics !

[kreegu]

I already played a few games but I think I miss a very important concept in the game.
I don not know when a turn ends, when I can get another attack. I miss the whole concept of "how much of my turn is consumed by a planned attack". Also I do not fully understand the square symbols in the atack planning window or the yellow-grey stars in the Display Panel.
It seems that the AI always gets a lot more of attacks in one round than me, which is frustrating as I clearly miss something. The rulebook is rather vague on the subject....

Can someone help ?[&o][&o][&o]

[golden delicious]

Each attack begins only when the last assigned unit is considered to have moved into place. So if you have assigned an artillery unit with zero move then the attack will only begin on the 10th round, regardless of whatever other units are involved. The attack planner should show ten boxes in the top right.

The circle of stars displays the latest round at which any one attack will begin. So in the above case it will show all the stars as greyed out because one attack is using 100% of the turn, regardless of whatever other attacks are going on.

Combat resolution is considered to be complete the round after the last round in which there was any combat anywhere on the map. So if there was one combat which began on the 2nd round (planned combats 10%) and lasted through the 3rd and 4th rounds (3 rounds = 30% of the turn), the game would move to the 5th round. There is there a die roll against this figure and force proficiency. If this passes, the computer will say "60% of the turn remaining" and you can make more moves and plan more attacks. If not, your turn is over. The exception to this is if you have positive shock, in which case the game may ignore the number of rounds spent fighting after the first.

There are two things you can do to prevent your turn from ending;
a) In most cases, you will want the "planned combats" % to be equal to the "turn used" % (i.e. all the remaining stars will be gold not grey), except if one or two attacks are much more important than all the others. This is a simple mechanistic function, and it shouldn't take much trouble to master.
b) Avoid battles which will last multiple rounds. This is much more complicated and I won't go into it here.

[kreegu]

Thanks a lot
That will help for the moment. I will start playing Cobra. I tried before and see if I do better. This seems to be a rather slow moving attrition type battle. Any playing tips ?

Christian

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: kreegu

Thanks a lot
That will help for the moment. I will start playing Cobra. I tried before and see if I do better. This seems to be a rather slow moving attrition type battle. Any playing tips ?

Well, what happened historically with Cobra was that the Allies concentrated all that airpower you have available on just a handful of hexes, and marched their army through that.

It shouldn't be a slow moving attrition type battle; you need to destroy a section of the German line and use the gap to move your forces south, forcing the rest of the German line to choose between being cut off or withdrawing. This was the battle which allowed the Allies to breakout of the Normandy beachead.

[B/snafu]

ORIGINAL: kreegu............It seems that the AI always gets a lot more of attacks in one round than me, which is frustrating as I clearly miss something.........

Same for this noob---even in the tannenburg tutorial where the designer states russia lacks supply and will be limited in attacks and variable initative--as germans I saw the Ai make 3 times as many attack as I did and it seemed for a while the ai was getting the initative (turns in row) on a regular basis. I managed a draw but I think I am actually starting to get the hang of it.

I am completly new to taow --have had voulume 1. with manual which I picked up in a bargain bin a long time ago--but after glancing through that manual was daunted into getting into toaw. Got to playing the hps pzc titles for awhile and was used to & enjoyed that system. Finaly purchased the Taow --read through the manual and played through the tutorials--[&o]--now I can see why there is all the hype about this classis. never thought I would even like WW1 or no-WW2 scenarios--but after just playing tannenburg and norm's korea tutorial- looking forward to trying more of the same. Can't wait to try europe in flames but figure I am gonna wait until I get a few more shorter scenarios under my belt.

Question--since my resolution is at 1024x768--I don't get the display panel graphics of stars and such---are the boxes in the attack planning window the only other way of roughly determining what part of the turn I'm in?? Still trying to get my mind wrapped around the turn mechanics.

[Veers]

Question--since my resolution is at 1024x768--I don't get the display panel graphics of stars and such---are the boxes in the attack planning window the only other way of roughly determining what part of the turn I'm in?? Still trying to get my mind wrapped around the turn mechanics.

This was a real bummer for me when I first started, as well. If you drag your task bar to the left side of your screen then the stars show up.

[B/snafu]

Thanks for that Veers---just fired it up on test and got the stars[:)]

[Veers]

ORIGINAL: B/snafu
Thanks for that Veers---just fired it up on test and got the stars[:)]

You're welcome.

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: Veers

ORIGINAL: B/snafu
Thanks for that Veers---just fired it up on test and got the stars[:)]

You're welcome.

The bottom status bar also gives you the numbers if you wave the mouse over where the stars would be for those people who are resolutionally challenged<g>.

Ralph

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
The bottom status bar also gives you the numbers if you wave the mouse over where the stars would be for those people who are resolutionally challenged<g>.

Resolutionally challenged? That sounds like what I used to be every January 2nd! Until I got smart and gave up even making resolutions, that is...[:D]

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Each attack begins only when the last assigned unit is considered to have moved into place. So if you have assigned an artillery unit with zero move then the attack will only begin on the 10th round, regardless of whatever other units are involved. The attack planner should show ten boxes in the top right.

The circle of stars displays the latest round at which any one attack will begin. So in the above case it will show all the stars as greyed out because one attack is using 100% of the turn, regardless of whatever other attacks are going on.

Combat resolution is considered to be complete the round after the last round in which there was any combat anywhere on the map. So if there was one combat which began on the 2nd round (planned combats 10%) and lasted through the 3rd and 4th rounds (3 rounds = 30% of the turn), the game would move to the 5th round. There is there a die roll against this figure and force proficiency. If this passes, the computer will say "60% of the turn remaining" and you can make more moves and plan more attacks. If not, your turn is over. The exception to this is if you have positive shock, in which case the game may ignore the number of rounds spent fighting after the first.

There are two things you can do to prevent your turn from ending;
a) In most cases, you will want the "planned combats" % to be equal to the "turn used" % (i.e. all the remaining stars will be gold not grey), except if one or two attacks are much more important than all the others. This is a simple mechanistic function, and it shouldn't take much trouble to master.
b) Avoid battles which will last multiple rounds. This is much more complicated and I won't go into it here.

I think there was a thread about this some time ago. Meaning that it's not that easy...you can have for example one unit using 80% of the turn and ten units using 20% of the turn, and when you hit the combat resolution you will end up with something between 20 and 80% of your turn left. Can't recall the exact mathemathics, but the point being it's not as simple as being determined by the unit that uses most of the turn.

[L`zard]

A partial list of URL's concerning maxing your rounds per turn:

http://www.warfarehq.com/articles/toaw_ ... toaw.shtml
http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/docs/s ... ttings.php
http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/docs/s ... ttings.php
http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/docs/s ... rounds.php
http://www.warfarehq.com/articles/toaw_ ... ases.shtml
http://www.wargamer.com/articles/toawtips_page3.asp

These are just from my own collection, and details in many may be considered obsolete when it comes to ToaW III, eh?

Worth reading anyway, as one can sort of grasp where things are leading to, not to mention most of these dudes are pretty heavy guns and know at least how they won a few games, LOL!

Anyone with more to add, please do [&o] as I'm always trying to update, eh?

Kurt

[Silvanski]

Nice job Kurt. I once read these, but lost sight of the url's... Got my fav's folder updated now [;)]

[L`zard]

Ya betcha, Silvain!

Many of the very old links are dropping off the web, but I try to keep the ones that still work available to myself, at least, eh?

I'm sure that a folder worth of posts is available from the GS archieves, but I can't run thier search worth dick, LOL!

Kurt

[B/snafu]

Thank you for those links L'zard.

[L`zard]

ORIGINAL: B/snafu

Thank you for those links L'zard.

No Problem, just remember that many are very old and may not apply to ToaW 3, eh?

I'm sure there may be someone with an 'archieve' of posts/links' concerning same, hope they too will post em, eh?

[L`zard]

The bottom status bar also gives you the numbers if you wave the mouse over where the stars would be for those people who are resolutionally challenged<g>. Ralph

@Ralph: Personally, I'd be a little careful about telling people where to 'wave thier mouse', eh?[:D]

Some might not understand your grasp, if you get my point, LOL!

[:D][:D][:D]

[B/snafu]

I know I have probably read it here or in the manual before, or someone was talking about it-- and it's a basic principal---but after reading one of those guides in the links---I finally got it through my thick skull to leave out units from an attack that have very low movement allowance left so I'm starting my initial combats on round 3 or so instead of 8 or 9. My turn average seems to be improving but that could be related to other issues too.

[sPzAbt653]

Turn Mechanics/Turn Burn is complicated, but since there have been a lot of questions about it lately, I thought I would throw up a starting point.

In this shot I have an attack set up at the beginning of this turn in which the 101st PzG Reg and some other units stacked below it are supported by some artillery in an adjacent HQ unit. Notice in the upper right corner the display shows that the 101st PzG has used no movement points so far this turn. The other units in the attack also have used no movement points. After these units are set to attack, you can move the mouse cursor over the 'box of stars' on the right side of the screen and the dialogue at the bottom of the screen appears. This dialogue shows that 0% of the turn and combats will be used by this attack. Based on this there is a pretty good chance that this attack will not 'burn' the turn. There are other things involved that may affect this, but generally this looks good. Next up, what looks bad!

[sPzAbt653]

Now you will see that I have added the 30th Inf Div to the attack, he looks like a good strong unit to attack with. But he has moved to get to this position, and you will see in the bottom dialogue that while 0% of the turn is used, 40% of combats have been used. This is an awful ratio and I will burn myself for doing this. As you go thru a turn, keep the 'combats' percentage close to or less than the 'turn used' percentage and you will be maximizing your chance at multiple rounds.

It's better to start out with a small scale scenario to get the hang of this and to see what other things affect the 'turn burn' syndrome, rather than making big plans in a complex scenario, only to have the turn end 'prematurely' and risking TOAW rage, causing keyboard slamming and monitor smashing. [:(]