Kendari

[el cid again]

Turns out that the location of Kendari (Celebes or Ceram today) is not where we think it is - on all our maps. It is on the NORTH side of the penninsula, and NOT accessable from the South or West. Revising it on our scale will put it in a different hex - it is somewhat ambiguous which hex - and that would require a new trail system. IRL the trail goes due East from Pomela to Kendari - then turns Southeast to the coast where ferry services exist to a town Southeast of Kendari.

Since everyone is used to the location all forms of WITP use - is this matter worth correcting? It requires changes to the location file, to the pwhex file, and to art files to address properly.

[witpqs]

My vote would be to make it a "someday" change.

[Ol_Dog]

wait 'til we go back to 30 size hexes

[Andrew Brown]

FWIW, the location of Kendari is OK on my WitP map. It is near a hex border though, so if a map gets shifted slightly it could end up in the adjacent hex. Perhaps that is the case for the RHS map?

Andrew

[el cid again]

Well IF it is in the right hex - THEN the hex has the wrong hex sides - because ships should NOT be able to approach from West or SW -
but they can. And since that hex CAN be approached from those directions - it seems wrong not to permit that. Very difficult to resolve on this scale - whatever we do or do not do. The HEX can be approached by water - but not the port - except from the NE and E.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Well IF it is in the right hex - THEN the hex has the wrong hex sides - because ships should NOT be able to approach from West or SW -
but they can. And since that hex CAN be approached from those directions - it seems wrong not to permit that. Very difficult to resolve on this scale - whatever we do or do not do. The HEX can be approached by water - but not the port - except from the NE and E.

This is a consequence of the hex scale, though. It does not make the map incorrect.

Remember I was just talking about my map, not the RHS map, so maybe there is a significant difference between the two?

[el cid again]

Theoretically there is no difference at Kendari - or most other places. Only in Level 7 do we change anything significant - redoing Panama - adding Madagascar - relocating Aden - and resizing Australia and New Zealand.

In practice there are some minor differences in the art that affect the pwhex coding. This mostly takes the form of places that the particular imagery Cobra used is "wider" than the former map art was. This issue is specific and peculiar - in all forms of WITP you can approach Kendari from the West and Southwest - which IRL is impossible. There is no trail except in RHS - where we have added Pomela. But the trail does not run as you might expect to the SE - it runs DUE E to Kendari- which is on the Northern coast of the peninsula - and which can be approached only from the NE and E. I wonder if it should be fixed? Since I cannot make it be fixed in RHS - I am only wondering about RHS? Wether or not it is fixed does not make it right in any form of WITP - it is always wrong now insofar as you can approach the location of Kendari from the wrong direction by sea. Does it matter enough to address - that is the question?

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
This issue is specific and peculiar - in all forms of WITP you can approach Kendari from the West and Southwest - which IRL is impossible.

In game terms, where each hex is 60 miles across, it is not impossible though. The Kendari hex contains the peninsula, with Kendari on the Eastern side, and water that surrounds the peninsula and allows ships to sail to the SW and SE as well as to the East, from the Kendari hex. There is nothing wrong or impossible about it. It is just a consequence of the hex scale.

Andrew

[treespider]

Looks fairly accurate to me...

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: el cid again
This issue is specific and peculiar - in all forms of WITP you can approach Kendari from the West and Southwest - which IRL is impossible.

In game terms, where each hex is 60 miles across, it is not impossible though. The Kendari hex contains the peninsula, with Kendari on the Eastern side, and water that surrounds the peninsula and allows ships to sail to the SW and SE as well as to the East, from the Kendari hex. There is nothing wrong or impossible about it. It is just a consequence of the hex scale.

Andrew

Well - it does not look as if that is the case. There is still more land to the East of the Kendari hex - so you should have to go into that hex to get "around" the penninsula. There is also land to the NE - and so the trail can run due E from Pomela to Kendar - as IRL.

[el cid again]

The image looks exactly as the RHS map does - and the map shown does NOT look the same. The trail runs SE instead of E - and Kendari is clearly in the wrong hex - as I have been saying.

[Dili]

Looks fairly accurate to me...

 
I dont think so. In game you can approach Kendari by many directions. Not in the "real" map. I would move it 1 hex to North.

[Mifune]

Well for what my two cents is worth I have to agree with El Cid and Dili.

[el cid again]

The question remains: This is an RHS thread, so it is an RHS question: RHS is just as wrong as stock and CHS and everything else (if there is anything else): we are no better. Do we WANT to make it right - or machts nichts? I want to freeze - I don't want to change it - and I won't UNLESS the RHS (not other) users want it changed.

[Mifune]

The clock is ticking .....

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
Well - it does not look as if that is the case. There is still more land to the East of the Kendari hex - so you should have to go into that hex to get "around" the penninsula. There is also land to the NE - and so the trail can run due E from Pomela to Kendar - as IRL.

It might look like that but I suspect that may be due to the WitP map being rotated. It does not align with North-South at Celebes.

I decided to take a closer look to verify what I said earlier, and I made the following map, showing an outline from an actual map of the area, superimposed on that part of my map. It shows that Kendari is indeed in the correct hex on my map, even if it is close to the edge of its hex. I drew the location of the "trail" as well.

The red lines I drew show the path a TF would take to move the the adjacent hexes to the West, East and NE (note that on my map the hexsides to the SW and SE of Kendari are blocked hexsides that do not permit sea movement, due to the presence of the islands). All of the possible movement paths are contained within the hex, so are possible.

As I said there may be differences with your map, and your changes may be correct for that map. I only commented in this thread to respond to your statement that all maps have Kendari in the wrong hex. My map does not.

[el cid again]

I agree it looks like it is not out of sync for the hexes on your map.

I do not see why the art would be different - we didn't actually change it intentionally - but
in our case we seem to have hexes slightly rotated and offset from what I see here.

There is probably some technical issue relating imagery to the CHS map art - and it may be that
here is a point where the line up was slightly different. I did not know it could change the hex
of a town - but it seems to have done.

If and when we do another release of RHS - I have just released and frozen -
and if anyone cares - we might move Kendari and the trail art associated with it.
So far no one seems to care - so even that possibility is not on the table.