Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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dale1066
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by dale1066 »

Many of the young generation coming through now have no real idea what most of the Imperial system is and its only a matter of time before inches and miles go the same way as Chains and shillings

Does this mean we have to rename the inch worm a 2.54cm worm

For a laugh listen to the B-side of the barron nights '45 (remember them Jim [:)]) "A taste of Aggro" for the decimalisation song

Mind you the grumpy old man in me is tempted to say that with the current state of the education system in this country "the young generation coming through now have no real idea " of anything :) unless its on the tv or a console. And how long before Wif becomes un PC?

any way off topic sorry.
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Neilster
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Neilster »

And how long before Wif becomes un PC?
No worries. With the aging population of Western countries, living in the past has a bright future. [:'(]

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Cheers, Neilster
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Froonp
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Froonp »

The Romans had 10 months in a year until they inserted July and August honoring Julilus and Augustus Caesar. That is why September/Oct/Nov/Dec have the prefixes for 7/8/9/10 though they are the 9/10/11/12 months.
Wow, I'm happy to have learned that.
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by composer99 »

One needs only to look at the whole "retro" (50s - 80s) phenomenon to see that letting nostalgia overcome reason, fashion sense, and/or good taste is hardly the pastime solely of the aged. [:)]
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The Romans had 10 months in a year until they inserted July and August honoring Julilus and Augustus Caesar. That is why September/Oct/Nov/Dec have the prefixes for 7/8/9/10 though they are the 9/10/11/12 months.
Wow, I'm happy to have learned that.
THE ROMANS ALSO DID NOT HAVE LOWER CASE LETTERS AND NO PUNCTUATION SO THEIR SENTENCES JUST RAN TOGETHER WHICH CAN BE RATHER DIFFICULT TO READ ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE USE TO THE MODERN STYLE NO WONDER LATIN IS NOW A DEAD LANGUAGE DONT YOU AGREE IMAGINE HAVING TO READ A WAR AND PEACE IN THIS STYLE I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD GRADUALLY GO NUTS THATS BECAUSE WAR AND PEACE IS OVER M PAGES LONG
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Mziln
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Mziln »

[:D] CARPE JUGULUM [:D]
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Neilster
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Neilster »

Last year I did a 3rd year maths subject which involved number theory. We had to do calculations using Roman numerals as an exercise (and in the exam. That was pretty cruisy. Easy marks.). We're not sure how the Romans actually did them, but they probably used a grouping and substitution algorithm similar to the modern one we learned. They would be so familiar with this that they would have been able to do several steps at once. It's no wonder that Arabic numerals and the concepts of zero and place took over though.

Mind you, we use algorithms like long multiplication, (well...some of us can still do it [:D]) without really thinking about why they work. In that subject we also performed multiplication using the Ancient Egyptian and Russian peasant methods. They're pretty funky, but work. It was all designed to make us think hard about the number system and algorithms we take for granted.

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Arron69
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Arron69 »

Hello all,
I have been working to much to be able to fit in the writing of ship descriptions. But now i have 4 weeks of summer vacation that will be use on that excusive. Only one more year...
 
Andi
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by iamspamus »

This all sounds really cool. (OK. I'm a nerd.) I also like root origins of words.

Jason
ORIGINAL: Neilster

Last year I did a 3rd year maths subject which involved number theory. We had to do calculations using Roman numerals as an exercise (and in the exam. That was pretty cruisy. Easy marks.). We're not sure how the Romans actually did them, but they probably used a grouping and substitution algorithm similar to the modern one we learned. They would be so familiar with this that they would have been able to do several steps at once. It's no wonder that Arabic numerals and the concepts of zero and place took over though.

Mind you, we use algorithms like long multiplication, (well...some of us can still do it [:D]) without really thinking about why they work. In that subject we also performed multiplication using the Ancient Egyptian and Russian peasant methods. They're pretty funky, but work. It was all designed to make us think hard about the number system and algorithms we take for granted.

Cheers, Neilster
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by jesperpehrson »

Progressreport: Michael Andersson has finished the poles and Adam has finished the Russians! I have yet to read them all but I am very impressed by the work of these two guys. Adams research on the Soviet army is *very* impressive. Kudos to both!

This said we need more hands doing write-ups if we are to make the deadline (whenever that will be, perhaps 6 to 8 months from now Steve?). So please, if you have some time over and an interest in the Second World War, come over and help with one country. See if you like it. I have found it to be very educative and enjoyable! So send me a PM and I will help find a suitable country for you to write about! Come one come all! [:D]
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- Plan Blau OV as Soviet
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by po8crg »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: dale1066

Just been reading through the naval descriptions and looking at the specs for example max armour thickness some seem to be in metric some imperial and some have both.

To me a trivial thing however others may not think such. Is it a question of what data is avialable, for example I would expect all CW naval descs to be in imperial measures and the rest of the european navies to be metric? what about the US?

Apols if this has been discussed before I did a search for metric and imperial and nothing cropped up
I have standardized on US punctuation for numbers: 12,000 men, 16.2 thickness. But for the metric, I have strongly advised to go with the owning country/country where manufactured, which will make the write ups inconsistent across all unit writeups.

I was unfamiliar with the use of the adjective Imperial for measuring systems. Instead I am use to English versus Metric.

This is one of those "divided by a common language" things. We British reference the Imperial system; you Americans call it the English system.

Mostly, the units are the same, feet, inches, yards and miles are the same in Britain as in the USA; pounds and ounces are the same, but our ton is 2,240 lb, to your 2,000 lb. Of course, the tons ships are measured in are completely different anyway - they're 100 cu. ft. Gross Tonnage is the relevant measure for military ships.

All of the measures of fluid volume, from fluid ounce to pint to gallon are completely different between the two systems.

I think for most purposes, we're unlikely to confuse Imperial and US units when they have the same name. The key exceptions are the ton, where it's important to distinguish short tons from long tons and from metric tonnes when referencing weights (eg of tanks and aeroplanes) and the gallon if anyone does mention fuel consumption or tankage.
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

What a mess. Thanks for the information.

None of this affects game play (mercifully) and I try to just let the authors of the various unit descriptions do their thing. Occasionally my background of majoring in English (not an English Major as I have been reminded several times) rears its head and I make some grammar and spelling corrections. On rare occasions I will rewrite a line for clarity.
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by po8crg »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

What a mess.

That's one of the reasons that people switched to the metric system. Every town had it's own definitions of the foot, inch, pound, etc.
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Mziln
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Mziln »


I have been looking into the Hungarians here is what I found out.

There is no such thing as the Gd Motorized corps. Unless you count border guards.

In Yugoslavia

3rd Hungarian Army

I.Army Corps
1st Infantry Brigade
13th Infantry Brigade
15th Infantry Brigade

IV.Army Corps
2nd Infantry Brigade
10th Infantry Brigade
12th Infantry Brigade

V.Army Corps
14th Infantry Brigade
19th Infantry Brigade
2nd Cavalry Brigade

the Gyorshadtest
1st Cavalry Brigade
1st Motorized Brigade
2nd Motorized Brigade


In Barbarossa

the Karpat Group

1st Mountain Brigade
8th Border Guard Brigade

the Gyorshadtest
1st Cavalry Brigade
1st Motorized Brigade
2nd Motorized Brigade

the Gyorshadtest or "Fast Moving Army Corps". However the name was something of a misnomer as it was only mechanized compared to other Hungarian units. The corps was not particularly mechanized when compared to similar units fielded by countries like Germany.

The tanks of the armored units were woefully obsolete. Armed with Italian Fiat L3 light (which had no turret and were armed with 2 fixed forward 8mm machineguns) often referred to as "tankettes". And the Hungarian Toldi I light/medium tanks had a 20mm gun in a rotating turret. But this gun offered no serious armor piercing capability. The Italian vehicles were worthless against modern Soviet anti-tank guns. While marginally better the Hungarian vehicles were no match for even some of the worst Soviet light tanks.

The Karpat Group also included the integral 1st Air Force Field Brigade (a collection of German and Italian aircraft). The Hungarian air brigade were of older vintage and were no match for Soviet fighter planes and bombers.

While well trained and well disciplined, the Karpat Group was poorly equipped and poorly supplied. Unfortunately the latter deficiencies were never remedied.

On 6 December 1941, the Hungarian mechanized corps was allowed to return to Budapest. The departure of the Gyorshadtest left the Hungarians with only a bicycle battalion, four infantry brigades, and two cavalry brigades on the Eastern Front. This force was poorly-equipped to cope with the vast distances and appalling conditions found there. Only the cavalry was able to make any useful contribution.

Germany continued to demand a maximum effort from the Hungarians and soon the Hungarian Second Army was dispatched. By the end of 1942, this ill-fated army was on the front lines north of Stalingrad protecting the doomed German 6th Army's northern flank.


Hungarian Second Army

IIIrd Field Corps
6th Light Field Division
7th Light Field Division
9th Light Field Division

IVth Field Corps
10th Light Field Division
12th Light Field Division
16th Light Field Division

VIIth Field Corps.
19th Light Field Division
20th Light Field Division
23rd Light Field Division

1st Armored Field Division


Source Wikipedia.
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mlees
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by mlees »

ORIGINAL: po8crg

Mostly, the units are the same, feet, inches, yards and miles are the same in Britain as in the USA; pounds and ounces are the same, but our ton is 2,240 lb, to your 2,000 lb. Of course, the tons ships are measured in are completely different anyway - they're 100 cu. ft. Gross Tonnage is the relevant measure for military ships.

All of the measures of fluid volume, from fluid ounce to pint to gallon are completely different between the two systems.

It's my understanding that warships were measured in "Displacement" tons. (The weight of the seawater displaced by a ship.)

Cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage

Quote from cite:
Displacement is the actual total weight of the vessel. It is often expressed in long tons or in metric tons, and is calculated simply by multiplying the volume of the hull below the waterline (ie. the volume of water it is displacing) by the density of the water. (Note that the density will depend on whether the vessel is in fresh or salt water, or is in the tropics, where water is warmer and hence less dense.) For example, in sea water, first determine the volume of the submerged portion of the hull as follows: Multiply its length by its breadth and the draft, all in feet. Then multiply the product thereby obtained by the block coefficient of the hull to get the hull volume in cubic feet. Then multiply this figure by 64 (the weight of one cubic foot of seawater) to get the weight of the ship in pounds; or divide by 35 to calculate the weight in long tons. Using the SI or metric system : displacement (in tonnes) is volume (in m3) multiplied by the specific gravity of sea water (1.025 nominally).

The word "displacement" arises from the basic physical law, discovered by Archimedes, that the weight of a floating object equates exactly to that of the water which would otherwise occupy the "hole in the water" displaced by the ship.

Cargo ships probably use the GRT method.

The Washington Naval Treaty defined a ton as 2240 pounds (weight, not volume), in Part 4: Definitions, here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pre-war/1922/nav_lim.html

Or am I misunderstanding something?
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by jesperpehrson »

ORIGINAL: Mziln


I have been looking into the Hungarians

Great! I will mark you down for them!

On another note, a fellow swede has volonteered for doing writeups (BredsjöMagnus). He is gonna do the a small country to start out. That means that the Swedes outnumber any other nationality for volonteering! Heja Sverige! Come on you brits and yanks! Will you be outdone by a pesky icecold half-socialist country? Tsk tsk [:D][:D]
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- Korea 50-51 MV as communist
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- Plan Blau OV as Soviet
- The great war xx as Central Powers
- DNO XX as Soviet
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Frederyck »

I am really sorry I can't boost the Swedish write-up participation ratio, but still, heja Sverige!!! [8D]

/Carl-Niclas
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by composer99 »

Will you be outdone by a pesky ice-cold half-socialist country? Tsk tsk [:D][:D]
 
Whazzat? Is he talking about Canada? [:'(]
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dale1066
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by dale1066 »

Just been looking through Janes for details on the french navy
Do you need the details of the Hungarian navy [:)]
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: dale1066

Just been looking through Janes for details on the french navy
Do you need the details of the Hungarian navy [:)]
Hey, the Swiss just won the America's cup (again).
Steve

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