Stock FitE Karri vs Larry

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Hey Karri, I am hoping you might be able to give some info about a couple things, if you don't mind.

Concerning supply, AGC reported in November '41 (around turn 45) that the supply situation had entirely failed in October, and that a minimum of 31 supply trains were required for daily maintenance, yet an average of only 16 were reaching the front. And only 30% of trucks were still in service, while 70% of German fighting strength advanced on foot. I was wondering if during your advance you had experienced similar problems. I know the numbers don't translate into the game, but I would guess this would mean most units operating in the 'red' or 'orange'. And, if you had no problems like this, do you feel it was due to the way you conducted your advance? Oh, I'm not looking to restrict the Germans in any way, just wondered what your experience was.

Also, about the partisan activity in your rear areas, is it drawing units from the front, or are you able to contain them with security and mp units?

Thanks!

The supply situation changes, usually after a breakthrough it takes 1-2 turns to mop up the remaining Soviets after which the railroad can be rebuilt...then it reaches the new frontline in 2-3 turns. Most unis are either in red or orange...

It's not such an problem since the units are advancing, they are not fighting. However, when they reach a new line of Soviet units, a line that canno't be simply bypassed, they need to rest for a few turns to regain supply. Of course spoiling attacks are kept on, but the main force is in no condition to conduct a breakthrough.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Slayer_of_kings
Could we see a close-up of the Moscow defence ring?? ..since Karri won't be looking at it anyway.

One close-up of the Moscow defensive ring coming up:

[larryfulkerson]

Karri said something in an email about wanting to know about the T-34 losses since the last Mud season so I want to post something about the Tank losses so far:

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: Karri
The supply situation changes, usually after a breakthrough it takes 1-2 turns to mop up the remaining Soviets after which the railroad can be rebuilt...then it reaches the new frontline in 2-3 turns. Most unis are either in red or orange...

It's not such an problem since the units are advancing, they are not fighting. However, when they reach a new line of Soviet units, a line that canno't be simply bypassed, they need to rest for a few turns to regain supply. Of course spoiling attacks are kept on, but the main force is in no condition to conduct a breakthrough.

That's sounds reasonable, and similar to what I've seen. Thanks!

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far ( before combat ):

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Karri said something in an email about wanting to know about the T-34 losses since the last Mud season so I want to post something about the Tank losses so far:

Hmm. Seems like encirclements are the only way to destroy tanks. I wonder if something should be done to that...and even so, the T-34's are easy to replace.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet view of the minimap moves movie from turns 100 thru 104:

[SMK-at-work]

I can't see the Sov's geting out of this one!!

One thing I have learned from a few test games for Zorts mods (only gone as far as T39 so far in any of them) is that the Sov's cannot afford to have large numbers of units cut off.

Movement rates in this game are such that hte Axis forces can stream through gaps, and hte Soviets had better not leave them any - which means having units, which means not getting them killed out of supply.

Even if it's to defend a valuable city like Kharkov (10% replacements) or Stalingrad for a few extra turns - it's just not worth losing several divisions - better to disband them while you still can, and or ship them out.

[Slayer_of_kings]

This game reminds me of the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and the seige of Paris. Bring on the Communards!!

[Veers]

Even if it's to defend a valuable city like Kharkov (10% replacements) or Stalingrad for a few extra turns - it's just not worth losing several divisions - better to disband them while you still can, and or ship them out.

Are you saying you would disband units that would otherwise have only a very slight chance of surviving?

[SMK-at-work]

I would disband units if it seemed sensible to do so - usually if I think they might have trouble getting out of a trap. the first option is to recognise teh problem and run away earlier!!

In FITE vs Zort I've suggested that another limitation on disbandment shuold be that units can only do so in an urban hex that can trace a rail line to a supply source. If it can do that then it sill normally be simpler and more productive to just rail out in the first place.

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I would disband units if it seemed sensible to do so - usually if I think they might have trouble getting out of a trap. the first option is to recognise teh problem and run away earlier!!

In FITE vs Zort I've suggested that another limitation on disbandment shuold be that units can only do so in an urban hex that can trace a rail line to a supply source. If it can do that then it sill normally be simpler and more productive to just rail out in the first place.

Of course I would not like to see units that are in contact with German disband just like that. If he wants to disband while I am 10 hexes away fine.

[DesertedFox]

Howdy all,

My 2 cents re disbanding is, are you disbanding the unit so as to redistribute its equipment or are you disbanding it to save its sorry arse?

In FITE, the first option would rarely occur, and the second option is, IMHO, pure fantasy when compared to what could the unit really do if its almost surrounded, or totally surrounded. Oh, and because supply status of units is clculated at the start of the German turn, Russian units completely surrounded during the German turn, but in supply at the start of the turn are legal for disbanding......abuse or what?

Thus, disbanding is a big no no in my FITE games.

If you want to save Soviet units from being surrounded, plan ahead. Yes, its impossble to stop them getting surrounded now and then, but its up to your strategy to ensure it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for a great fight Karri and Larry, you do the scnario and game justice.

Mark

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Howdy all,

My 2 cents re disbanding is, are you disbanding the unit so as to redistribute its equipment or are you disbanding it to save its sorry arse?

In FITE, the first option would rarely occur, and the second option is, IMHO, pure fantasy when compared to what could the unit really do if its almost surrounded, or totally surrounded. Oh, and because supply status of units is clculated at the start of the German turn, Russian units completely surrounded during the German turn, but in supply at the start of the turn are legal for disbanding......abuse or what?

Thus, disbanding is a big no no in my FITE games.

If you want to save Soviet units from being surrounded, plan ahead. Yes, its impossble to stop them getting surrounded now and then, but its up to your strategy to ensure it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for a great fight Karri and Larry, you do the scnario and game justice.

Mark

I agree... I don't see much point in disbanding anyway...
If Soviet player wants to disband something in Gorkiy or way deep behind I don'tr have much problem... maybe some low grade militia to get some equipment (but they are light inf. squads not rifle...).

Soviet player, anyway have too much work to do in trying to plug the holes, rail the units etc... he must plan ahead so disbanding is uselless, if you want that this or that unit die then let it die, but disbanding at the front is just way unhistorical. Just my take.

[Karri]

God damn it. 2 infantry regiments evaporated and other units suffered massive losses due to interdiction. It still doesn't stop my units from advancing though...BUT, in my opinion the Soviet airforce needs to be much weaker. Right now it rules the skies and is able to do pretty much anything. And this in a situation where only Moscow and Leningrad stand with Germans knocking on the doors...and it's only '42, the soviet airforce should still be recovering from Operation Barbarossa.

At least I know what my airforce will be doing in the next FitE game I play, if Axis I will just concentrate on interdiction and destroying the Soviet air force...if Soviet sit back and commit everything in the first winter offensive and then enoy the superiority...

Had Larry placed his air units on interdiction earlier, perhaps no breakthrough would have happened.





Or yeah, perhaps I just suck at air war.

[SMK-at-work]

From early 1942 the LW could only gain local superirity through considerable effort - mostly the VVS (Soviet airforce) DID rule the skies, despite heavier losses.
 
However I suspect that the interdiction model needs looking at too - I don't think either side did it as much as is depicted in FITE.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet view of the minimap moves movie from turns 101 thru 105:

[larryfulkerson]

This scenario looks like it might end soon with an Axis victory. Buzz is hooked up with SMK ( testing his mod version 7 ) and so it looks like I might have some time on my hands. So um......my question is this: Do you guys think I should do another tutorial AAR? anybody want to suggest a scenario for the vehicle?

[larryfulkerson]

I decided a few counterattacks were in order and blasted a few holes in the Axis lines: