WoW TOTAL WAR Is BACK!

[GreyFox]

It's worse than you think - Hollywood also makes stuff up!!!

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: GreyFox

It's worse than you think - Hollywood also makes stuff up!!!

So are you telling me everything I learned about Scottish history from Braveheart is... is.....not as it happened? I can't believe they would lie to me so! I don't believe it! Next thing you will try to tell me is that Enemy At The Gates had non-truths in it!

[JudgeDredd]

Weee[:'(]elll........

[GreyFox]

*shakes head* My lad you've no idea.
 
Seriously though, if you want a laugh ask a Turk about the Armenian or Greek genocides, or tell a Russian that Stalin was a monster. It's really funny.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
Next thing you will try to tell me is that Enemy At The Gates had non-truths in it!

<wargamer anal retentive mode>
The movie features a Soviet T-34/85 tank - at Stalingrad the Red Army was still using the T-34/76 model.
</wargamer anal retentive mode>

All joking aside – I often wonder why Hollywood gets it wrong – especially when getting it right requires no additional monetary effort and changes nothing in the story telling aspects.

Example : Enemy at the Gates features a map showing Switzerland to be German occupied. You don’t need an expensive historical consultant to get these howlers correct, all you need is some basic knowledge about the thing you’re trying to film.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
Next thing you will try to tell me is that Enemy At The Gates had non-truths in it!

<wargamer anal retentive mode>
The movie features a Soviet T-34/85 tank - at Stalingrad the Red Army was still using the T-34/76 model.
</wargamer anal retentive mode>

All joking aside – I often wonder why Hollywood gets it wrong – especially when getting it right requires no additional monetary effort and changes nothing in the story telling aspects.

Example : Enemy at the Gates features a map showing Switzerland to be German occupied. You don’t need an expensive historical consultant to get these howlers correct, all you need is some basic knowledge about the thing you’re trying to film.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Probably some assistant producer's godson/daughter gets hired as a favor to whomever and told to look over whatever. Not knowing or caring a lick about history he/she/it glances at the map, notices that a spot in unfilled and graciously " fixes" the map. But on the tank, they probably figured that the majority of people wouldn't know the difference. Plus they might have had a few 34/85's laying around a museum but no 76's. More cost effective to use that instead of either building from scratch or transporting it.

Can't remember where the movie was made but do believe it was over in the former Soviet Union. From personal experience, at the time the movie was made, having anything involving foreigners, or even a hint of foreigner added to the cost(a lot) of doing business.

[DuckofTindalos]

Actually, Enemy at the Gates was filmed exclusively in Germany. And they had Panzer III's in it, too...[:D]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/locations

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Actually, Enemy at the Gates was filmed exclusively in Germany. And they had Panzer III's in it, too...[:D]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/locations

My bad..memory goes due to old age and generous helpings of liquid beverage in my youth

[DuckofTindalos]

I was pretty certain it had been filmed in Hungary until I checked IMDb...

[ravinhood]

Continuing my AAR sorta. Amazingly the remnants of England hiding in their hovels of Caen and Rennes for several years jumped at the opportunity to take many of France's territories as France got excommunicated and the HRE decided they wanted some of that also. William Wallace's Ancestors continue to scrounge around in England main and aren't making any effort to expand futher&nbsp;from England prime and Ireland or come help me as my allies in my war against HRE or Poland. Portugal who also got itself in a war with France along with Spain and the Moors found itself relinquishing all that it had gained and now Spain looks like Spain again as Portugal has been whittled down to two provinces again. Milan also jumped on France and has taken several of&nbsp;the lower provinces from them. France has the Metz and&nbsp;Marsielle left&nbsp;and they are suking hind tit for some relief.&nbsp; The English have become a force again and the HRE has been a thorn in my arse for over&nbsp;42 turns now, with Poland not much futher behind at 35. There have been some great exciting battles as I try to hold onto my 7 meager provinces, one came down to&nbsp;my archer unit at 90% strength&nbsp;vs the sole faction leader from Poland nothing but him&nbsp;1 unit and the battle raged in the court yard as arrows flew and the leader slashed and bashed chopping my archer unit to nearly 1/2 strength before the fatal arrow pierced his heart. He did not die in so much vain though as he literally slaughtered two of my own faction leaders, cut them to pieces and practically two milita guard units. But, it was the day of the archers as they (3) full units of them ripped to pieces the rest of the meager Polish army that sought to take out Stettin.
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Venice has lost its steam and should have taken out Hungary when it had the chance. Hungary grows again. Russia has done nothing to help me even though they are at war with Poland. They have not sieged a single city or castle and run around out in their area like the Scots are doing in England. They have a huge navy though all clustered up around the port of Thorn which I own. If I ever goto war with Russia that port won't be open for trade very long. lol
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All my allies act as if they think I can handle the war all by myself. While Spain (allies of the HRE)&nbsp;comes marching into my area with a full stack nobody is sending any full stacks to help me. lol All my allies are either stupid running around in circles like the Scots and Russia or getting their butts kicked (France and Hungary). I have a huge array of allies and only Milan is really doing anything and even that isn't very much they aren't at war with HRE and I need that war. lol
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Income and building up strength beyond just enough for defense is very hard to do. Just when I get ready to do something the AI either shows up with some huge stack or blockades my ports so my income goes in the negative. And the Pope won't let me attack anybody. As soon as I get a siege if I don't break it off I get excommunicated. I been excommunitcaed for many years now. lol When a new pope is installed I get a reprieve, but, it doesn't take me long to get myself excommunitcated again. I finally got a 5 unit stack headed for Antwerp (HRE city). I plan on burning it to the ground since I just cannot build up enough for a&nbsp;good striking&nbsp;army yet. I can see this is going to be a very longggggggggggggggggg game of attrition. Taking what I can when I can, burning/selling everything I can in cities and castle I can't hold and using the ole scorched earth tactics that have won many a game for me. Civilization comes to mind here. lol One thing I'm noticing quite different from other Total Wars previous is that a LOT more battles are fought in the cities and castles than out in the fields. I think this is because the AI actually does attack and build siege equipment in this one MUCH BETTER than it did before and it doesn't stand around waiting for you to get reinforcements to that city or castle either. My tactic of charging out cavalry units to destroy the rams has been working quite well. At the loss of cavalry units I gain the advantage that the AI must fight me on the walls most of the time and I keep a nice spread of 4 archer units 2 melee units and 2 cavalry units as a base guard for my cities/castles. I try to time the hit on the rams just as they are entering fire range of my turrets which start burning the ram while my cavalry stalls the advance. The ram gets burned up and then I rush what is left of the cavalry around to another gate and re-enter and then use what is left to help with what gets thru or over the walls. Works quite well keeping the AI's cavarly out side the gates.
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Oh I just noticed France has capitulated to Milan (became it's vassal) and so has Hungary. What exactly are the advantages and disadvantages of vassaling in this game? HRE and Poland both in the same turn asked me to become their vassal.&nbsp; I said no of course cause I remember I accepted vassaling in some other game and they took all my money and I had nearly 100,000 units. I'm pretty broke most of the time in this though from having to reinforce and rebuild lost units all the time. I think I'm doing pretty good though for having 2 factions on my arse for 35 turns plus.
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Sorry no pictures I don't have any special picture programs and Matrixgames has made it practically impossible to use anything that isn't compressed to the maximum or tinnie weenie in size. I wanted to use another picture for my avatar, but, it says it's too big by about 3mb lol

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Example : Enemy at the Gates features a map showing Switzerland to be German occupied. You don’t need an expensive historical consultant to get these howlers correct, all you need is some basic knowledge about the thing you’re trying to film.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

The map obviosly would not be as cool looking nazi europe with switzerland poking out of it. It would be a distraction. Its more like style vs history.

[Erik Rutins]

I have to say, MTW2 is a good game and it did suck me in for a few days, but I still don't find it as good as the original MTW. Plus, the whole series to me will always be less than it could be without true strategic game multiplayer - it's been crying out for that since Shogun Total War and I can't believe they still haven't done it. I really could care less about playing out individual battles in multiplayer, the campaign is what it's really about and the AI just isn't a good challenge.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I have to say, MTW2 is a good game and it did suck me in for a few days, but I still don't find it as good as the original MTW. Plus, the whole series to me will always be less than it could be without true strategic game multiplayer - it's been crying out for that since Shogun Total War and I can't believe they still haven't done it. I really could care less about playing out individual battles in multiplayer, the campaign is what it's really about and the AI just isn't a good challenge.

The XL mod for MTW/VI is very good -- new playable factions and provinces added and the peasant units removed.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

the AI just isn't a good challenge.

That's putting it mildly. Still, I'll probably pick up the expansion pack when it comes out; I'd like to try my hand at playing the Teutonic Knights.

[ravinhood]

Erik no one with a life would ever finish a multiplayer game of this. Hell it almost takes a lifetime just to play against the AI that plays a lot faster than humans do. That's why they've never made a broad mass multiplayer game of this and always said so. It just doesn't warrant the cost of the resources to produce it and I agree. Only A handful of players would ever play the multiplayer game even if they did make it. For it to be feasible it would have to be some online multiplayer world where you have teams of people that play on a faction side and take over when someone else is not on to play it. There would also have to be a dedicated server.
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As far as it being better or worse than the origional I can't say just yet. It's providing me fun and challenge and that's more than I can say for a lot of games released lately that's for sure. I think the provinces of the origional allow the AI to play a better game since I can see already some are getting locked into some map stuck loop and not doing anything but running circles in the same place namely the Scots who took over England and well I don't think they were programmed to do that very often&nbsp;and I just happened to hit on the one in a million where they do and they don't know what to do since they aren't programmed to do anything beyond England or at least it seems that way to me so far.
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I could also email you the present game I am playing and let's just see if you still think the AI isn't as challenging as a human. I'm playing Denmark and these last two battles I barely lived thru have certainly put me in a pickle. I don't know if I can rebuild before the 2nd waves arrive. That's pretty good AI to me when two battles in a row go down to a handful of units. Even playing my best strategy and tactics this has been an outstanding challenging game so far. I am playing Vh/Vh mode though did you Erik? I don't think people should go around calling the AI easy or lame if they've only played the easy (normal) version and not stepped up and played the mans game of maximum difficulty.

[EagleMountainDK]

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that 1-on-1 mp is added in the expansion.

[EagleMountainDK]

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Use the political and merchant mods for this title, they add alot more to the game.

Hi Gem, were do one find these mods?

[GreyFox]

There is a hotseat multiplayer campaign in MTW2.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Erik no one with a life would ever finish a multiplayer game of this. Hell it almost takes a lifetime just to play against the AI that plays a lot faster than humans do. That's why they've never made a broad mass multiplayer game of this and always said so. It just doesn't warrant the cost of the resources to produce it and I agree. Only A handful of players would ever play the multiplayer game even if they did make it. For it to be feasible it would have to be some online multiplayer world where you have teams of people that play on a faction side and take over when someone else is not on to play it. There would also have to be a dedicated server.

When I read Erik's post above, I was gonna respond, but ravinhood beat me too it. His words pretty well sum-up the cons of doing multiplayer for the strategic component of the game. Keeping together a group of people who would be willing to play the different factions for several hundred turns would be darn near impossible. It'd be fun, but the prospects of playing a game to completion strike me as rather remote.

I've played M2TW to completion three times, the last time as the Scots. After each of the first two games, I uninstalled it, and SWORE that I'd never play it again. Then, I'd get some inspiration to play a faction, and off I'd go on THE ORDEAL that's involved in capturing forty-five provinces, Jerusalem included. There's no real genius demanded, just lots and lots of clicking and mountains of patience, not to mention stamina.

The Scots were easier to play than I thought they would be BTW. I built lots of border horse and pike militia. The cavalry swept through England and France like a hot knife through butter. Then I entered into a period of consolidation of perhaps twenty years, putting down rebellions and punishing the Pope's buddies who kept nipping away at the perimeter of my little empire.

When I emerged, my building of militia drill squares gave me the ability to build heavy pikemen, whereupon, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Denmark, the HRE, Venice, and Poland succumbed in quick fashion, perhaps thirty-years. Jerusalem fell not long, thereafter, and the game ended. Throughout the course of play, my biggest challenge was a chronic shortage of leaders/generals. It always seems that my princes (and princesses) are not "family friendly" and do not seed well.

I've since un-installed M2TW and I'm committed to never playing it again. I've a garden to tend to and such. Seriously, this time. [8D]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[ravinhood]

Just like to ask Prince what difficulty were you using in those games? Like I said before it's pretty easy when you're an experienced gamer, especially wargamer and say the AI's are lame if you're only playing normal difficulties. I'm playing vh/vh and I certainly am not experiencing what you say is quite simple. If I move to attack one faction then another will come from the other side and attack my weak cities/castles. I'm in a two front war at least all the time. Also try playing Denmark. You're up against the HRE right off the bat and Poland as well if you go south which is what I did instead of taking the easy road to the north as I did in the old MTW all the time for safety. Plus Russia/Novogrod plays a MUCH better game of it than in the old version as well. Where I used to could slip in a boat and hit the western shores of Russia I no longer can because of rebel naval units not to mention Russian units hitting those areas a lot earlier than the old MTW.

And yes I would figure Scotland for an experience human player would be easiest of all since you have no one behind you or really around you except England who's got to deal with France right off the bat as well. In this version the easy factions I see are Moors, Scotland and Russia, all 3 of which only have one real faction to contend with for quite some time. Moors can rush up into Spain and not have to worry about Egypt for quite some time, Russia can easily gather 7 areas before having to deal with Poland and/or the Turks whom are at war with the Byzantine and Egypt very early.

Hungary would be a good one to play I think as they get hit hard and early by Poland, Venice and Byzantine not to mention pretty much being surrounded early on. I tend to like to play the smaller weaker minor factions as opposed to playing the majors. Scotland is a minor of course, but, it has it's advantages without anyone other than England for a long long time. My preferences and the ones I will play will be Denmark, Hungary, Portugal and Moors. I might also give Sicily a shot as well and Milan last. I think the HRE could be quite the challenge if on vh/vh the ai is programmed to be a bit more aggessive towards you. Then I'd have to deal with Poland, Denmark, France and Milan early on. HRE is probably the only major that might be fun to play that I can see from a challenge point vs the ai.

One more thing I will add for me. It's not whether I win or lose when I play these games, but, that I had fun doing it. If there isn't any nail biting or I win every battle by a 100 to 1 margin (as in RTW) then the game is not fun. In a game like this it's the battles that are the most fun and I've had some epic ones already like I did in MTW origional I only miss that I can't save the campaign log files and view these epic battles like I could in MTW origional. That one battle where it came down to just the remains of my archer unit vs the Faction Leader was great fun and nail biting as the winner got the city and that was 1300gp I couldn't afford to lose. lol The most fun in all the total war games has been the early going, but, MTW origional kept that fun deep into the game even to the end game with those returning faction heirs and of course the lovely map revolts just as you thought you had the game sewed up. At this point I think both are good games of challenge. I lean toward MTW origional only because I think the AI reponds better to provincial movement and attacking/defending than in 10,000 squares like the present version. But, at any rate it's still much better than RTW was.