That will work

[mogami]

OK that will work, won't be to much work to find the recon names there are only 10 Pz Divs.


Opps I meant to reply to a post in Info thread not start a new one.

[screamer]

say mogami, just wondering what countries will be featured in your may1940 wfront mod??

[mogami]

France, BEF, Belguim, Netherlands, Italy (units arrive in HQ on French border in June) Germany every unit I can find data on that was in France during the campaign. I don't think it will work against the AI but I have not gotten to the point of actually play testing it yet *The French and Allied armies have their divisions still in the HQ . I am doing the German Army at present but some problems remain
Infantry Division Format (I need a temp plate for each nation)
standard West Front coded Infantry Division
SQD (243) normal for game but I used 200 for French Have not decided German and French may be incorret
Recon very difficult to track down they vary alot basic number I used just to get a number was 24
Arty 36 French TOE
AT 8 French TOE
AA 6 French TOE

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Mogami
I am doing the German Army at present but some problems remain
Infantry Division Format (I need a temp plate for each nation)
standard West Front coded Infantry Division

TO's of Infantry Divisions:
German: http://www.feldgrau.com/heerinf.htm
British: http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/017_b ... f-div.html
Belgium: http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/021_b ... v-inf.html
Netherlands: http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/016_n ... v_inf.html
Italy: http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/019_i ... nf_40.html
France: not found, but maybe you'll find anything useful here:
http://france1940.free.fr/en_index.html#Army
Hope that's what you need.

[mogami]

Hi, thanks I've had all those links for several months. They are very interesting the problem is none of them tell me what i am looking for. example 1st Infantry division
how many squads on May 10, 1940 recon,arty,AT,AA I plan on giving the Geramn Infantry ratings of 70 exp. (French infantry depending on type is from 50 to 65) making all German infantry (including the new divisions) better then all French infantry . The French moblie divisions that had been in existence for over 2 years are 65 less then 2 years 60 German panzer divisions are 80
But again i need sqd,recon,arty,AT,AA strengths for all ten Pz div. I know what types of tanks and how many in each div. The best site i have found so far has the Order of Battle 10May40 but no info on the numbes I need. Compared to June 21 1941 what changes to TOE had been done to German divisions (I know the Panzer data) Then using the 1941 data (which we have in WIR) I can adjust from that example if German division in 1941 has 243 infantry sqds and this is after a Bn had been removed from each division to raise more between France and Russia then I would figure out how many sqds are in a BN and add that number to the 1940 div

Does this make sense?

[screamer]

im might be able to find sizes of dutch divisions, maybe belgian, but it will take TIME

[Chairman]

A reminder only.
The French North Africa Colonial troops were very good and stood up to most of what the Germans trew at them even panzers.

[mogami]

The following Infantry divisions all have exp of 65 (hightest for French and only 5 under a German infantry div)

1re DNA GQG
2e DNA 1re Armee
3e DNA 2e Armee
4e DNA 9e Armee
5e DNA 1re Armee
6e DNA 3e Armee
7e DNA GQG

[Chairman]

1st Morrocan infantery division were a unit with enlisted men, not conscipts, and wa s considered a elite unit.
Some of them fought inside Belgium during the French advance to defend Belgium.

If I remember right they stoped the German panzer advance for some time before they were overrun or fled?? Dont remember were I read this battle but it was some time ago.

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, thanks I've had all those links for several months. They are very interesting the problem is none of them tell me what i am looking for. example 1st Infantry division
how many squads on May 10, 1940 recon,arty,AT,AA ......

Mogami

You could steal this info from the France '40 scenerio of Operational Art of War if you thought
the info was accurate enough. That would give you every vehicle,gun,squad.

Loki

[mogami]

I don't have AOW, I've never owned a Talonsoft game.
(if I had their France 1940 I would not need to play with SSI'S West Front)
While adding the sub units to German panzer divisions last night I discovered there are no Pz rgt units. So I had to make the rgts bde instead.

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Mogami
example 1st Infantry division
how many squads on May 10, 1940 recon,arty,AT,AA

Required strength of german divisions 1939:

INF DIV
officers:500
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2500
men:13400
total:16500
MGs:500
mortars:140
inf.guns:25
pak 3,7cm:75
howitzers and guns:48
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:3
trucks:500
automobiles:400
horses:5000
carts:1000

INF DIV (MOT.)
officers:500
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2500
men:13400
total:16500
MGs:500
mortars:140
inf.guns:25
pak 3,7cm:75
howitzers and guns:48
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:30
trucks:1700
automobiles:1000
Krads:1300

PZ DIV
officers:400
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2000
men:9300
total:11800
MGs:220
mortars:50
inf.guns:10
pak 3,7cm:50
howitzers and guns:28
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:100
battle tanks:324
trucks:1400
automobiles:560
Krads:1300

LE. DIV
officers:400
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:1600
men:8700
total:10800
MGs:460
mortars:60
inf.guns:10
pak 3,7cm:50
howitzers and guns:24
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:100
battle tanks:86
trucks:1400
automobiles:600
Krads:1100

Of course these aren't the real numbers of each division. But anyway I hope this will help a bit.

Dave

[mogami]

Originally posted by davewolf

Required strength of german divisions 1939:

INF DIV
officers:500
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2500
men:13400
total:16500
MGs:500
mortars:140
inf.guns:25
pak 3,7cm:75
howitzers and guns:48
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:3
trucks:500
automobiles:400
horses:5000
carts:1000

INF DIV (MOT.)
officers:500
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2500
men:13400
total:16500
MGs:500
mortars:140
inf.guns:25
pak 3,7cm:75
howitzers and guns:48
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:30
trucks:1700
automobiles:1000
Krads:1300

PZ DIV
officers:400
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:2000
men:9300
total:11800
MGs:220
mortars:50
inf.guns:10
pak 3,7cm:50
howitzers and guns:28
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:100
battle tanks:324
trucks:1400
automobiles:560
Krads:1300

LE. DIV
officers:400
civil servants:100
non-comissioned ranks:1600
men:8700
total:10800
MGs:460
mortars:60
inf.guns:10
pak 3,7cm:50
howitzers and guns:24
flak 2cm:12
armoured recon:100
battle tanks:86
trucks:1400
automobiles:600
Krads:1100

Of course these aren't the real numbers of each division. But anyway I hope this will help a bit.

Dave

Hi, in WIR a full strength inf div has 243 sqds how many men per sqd is it using (seems like it more like Platoons then sqd.)

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Mogami



Hi, in WIR a full strength inf div has 243 sqds how many men per sqd is it using (seems like it more like Platoons then sqd.)

Mogami

Jeeze... 50 men per Wir Sqd. The game puts men into clumps of 50 cause its easier. This has nothing to do with actual TOE.

Loki

[Jeremy Pritchard]

Hi, I tried to make this scenario myself a year ago, and came to the conclusion that it will probably not work. The problem arises about what happens when the blizards hit? Did the Allies experience such a disaster? Can the game be made to run each turn by 1 day instead of 1 week (so the game lasts longer then 10 turns?). (also you cannot change the calendar to anything below June 1941)

Also, I think you are SEVERELY unerestemating the quality of the French army. Take a look at the battle of France (I created a VERY detailed version of this, but never completed, for TOAW, relying on a hell of a lot of research from multiple sources) that sated the best French formations were equal, and possibly even better then the best German formations. The problem was that wherever the Germans did their main strikes (Ardennes) they were against very poor troops. The Ardennes area was defended by the 9th Army, known as the weakest of the 1st Army Group's Armies. It was composed of reservist divisions, as well as cavalry divisions that were in reality no greater then brigades.

The Germans sent their best troops against France's weakest, undoubtedly they would have broken through.

Actions against the French 1st Army (best troops) resulted in German Panzer Divisions being stopped in their tracks, and even, in most instances, thrown back. The 1e Morrocan Division was already mentioned, it managed to stop a bridgehead of 2 Panzer Divisions.

After the initial breakthrough the 60 remaining Divisions of the French Army held the Weygand line (longer then the May 1940 line) longer, and inflicted more casualties when the French army numbered 90 Divisions.

Also, the Belgian army fought very well, and was limited primarily due to being positioned on the frontier when the battle started, but managed to retreat in remarkable good order. The Dutch also inflicted severe reversals to German paratroopers and were only saved due to insufficient numbers. On paper the sides were equal, about 130 divisions each, but the Allies were divided (6 were Dutch, 22 were Belgian, leaving only around 100 united French and British).

The vast majority of German forces that took part in the May 1940 battle were just as green as the French. The invasion of Poland used only around 50% of the units that fought in the Battle of France, the remainder never saw action (but were in the East) or were newly raised, or were on garrison duty in the West.


The French were defeated strategically, not tactically. They lost because their best troops were in the wrong place (Belgium) when the real battle was with their worst troops.

The best French troops should be rated at least in the medium to high 70's, with the poor ones in the 50's, and some ones in between in the 60's.

Also, many German Panzer divisions (about 1/2) were newly raised or reformed from light divisions, and never fought in this format. They should have lowered experience due to shuffling and replacements. The battles in Poland did not give the entire German Army massive amounts of training.



What would be more realistic in creating would be a Western Front 1944 game. Since this would last longer (1944-1945), and could have a more realistic use of the Blizzard turns (symbolizing the Allied unpreparadness for the German winter offensive) it would fit more with WIR then a 1940 version. Plus WIR can have the calendar covering this era.

Unfortunately, I formatted my computer after I gave up on these files, or else I could have aided your construction.

However, if time allows, I would be very interested in supplying the Graphics for the AFV's and aircraft (for either game you plan to make, as I have a really cool 1940 camoflage scheme for Allied and German equipment that I used, and done correctly can make those tanks look awesome!).

I wish you good luck in your 1940 scenario, and will offer any insight to problems encountered.

(you must watch out that certain hexes are under certain national control. The main one is the supply hex for both sides. Each side has a hex where supply eminates from (in the far east for the USSR and around Berlin for the Germans). If this hex is changed to a water hex, then that nationality will have no supply. If that hex is stated as being under control of your enemy, then they will get no supply. The AXIS side (what will be your new Allied side) MUST be based in the West. The USSR side (what will be your new Axis side) MUST be based in the East. That is due to the problem of the supply hex (unless you manage to crack the coding in the EXE files).

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Jeremy Pritchard
Hi, I tried to make this scenario myself a year ago, and came to the conclusion that it will probably not work. The problem arises about what happens when the blizards hit? Did the Allies experience such a disaster? Can the game be made to run each turn by 1 day instead of 1 week (so the game lasts longer then 10 turns?). (also you cannot change the calendar to anything below June 1941)

Ummmmm.

I think he's making the scenerio for Westfront, not Wir.

Loki

[mogami]

Hi Jeremy I am using West Front not WiR only mentioned it because unit formats are the same. I have only used standard numbers so far for French/German/other units. Can tweak them later but a 65exp dug in and supplied should be able to stop a 70 attacking/lower readiness that and give it a few support arty/at units. I have not progressed to the point of play testing yet and there seem to be problems that will prevent it from ever working

East Front German unit shattering
ALlied Naval Gunfire (prevents Germans from being able to do combat in coastal hexs since allies get 10k NGFS added and this tears Germans apart.
Allied air units go after bridges in Italy
German HQ go inactive if too far from allied units

alll part of West Front Code