Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

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Dili
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RE: Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

Post by Dili »

The Soviet battleships were made from an Italian project based on Littorios.
 
They got torpedo hits and the speed was still around 20kts so certainly nothing catastrophic. From data available and water volume that entered the ship it is not diferent from other battleships. Besides US Navy considered that Iowas had a regretable TDS.
 
el cid again
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RE: Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

Post by el cid again »

Only insofar as the expansion room desired could not be obtained with a beam of 108 feet - permitting passage of the Panama Canal with 1 foot on each side. The Montana class was designed the other way - it isn't just a lengthened Iowa as it appears - but wider - with more space for torpedo/mine protection: in consequence it could not pass the Canal. As, indeed, neither can supercarriers which have a beam greater than 108 feet. Today - absent fear of heavy caliber guns - USN "protection" is pretty much exclusively compartmentation - a system pioneered by RN on Colossus and Majestic class carriers in WWII era. Lots of compartments, no armor. [Except we now have begun to put plastic armor on some upper works - for protection not from heavy shells but very light fragments and bullets] When one gets very technical, there are always pros can cons to any protection scheme. But you are the first to suggest that Italian protection schemes are comparable to others - other than Russian - which indeed were based on it. You would not want to be on a Littorio in a fight with an Iowa - and not entirely due to the difference in guns and fire control. But the difference in the ability of an Iowa to withstand a 15 inch hit and that of a Littorio to withstand a 16 inch hit is not trivial; rearm the Iowa with the 15 inch Italian turret and fit her with Italian fire control you still would not want to be on the Littorio. Which is not meant to imply (as often is done by Americans) that the Littorio is a horrible design: it is not. No defense platform should be measured without regard for its cost - and in terms of cost/effectiveness, the Littorios might be better ships. The Iowas were indeed very fine, fast ships - but the Littorio is possibly the only capital ship ever built that was faster - and worth almost as much in many situations. The Italians designed their ships for the Med, did not need to transit the Pacific,
and had to worry about possible enemy air bases in a sense that does not occur in the Pacific: speed seemed to be worth investing in - and they may well have made the best choice in the circumstances.
Dili
Posts: 4742
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:33 pm

RE: Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

Post by Dili »

The Iowas were faster than Littorios. 33 vs 30kt. The belt protection of Littorio was at level of Yamato or better and almost like Iowa. They were inferiors in sea keeping, range, and their deck protection was subpar. Their AA system was too sofisticated for the time with all guns and FCS in stabilised mounts and give some problems. Italian 15" guns had a penetrating performance almost like 16" of Iowas.
 
Overall is not surprising that Iowas were better, Littorios were designed with Treaty in mind and started to be build in 1935.
 
 http://www.battleship.org/html/Articles/IowaClass/Armor.htm for TDS problems. One thing is not refered there is that the speed requirements limited the beam at A turret place and degraded the underwater protection there.
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Dili

The Iowas were faster than Littorios. 33 vs 30kt. The belt protection of Littorio was at level of Yamato or better and almost like Iowa. They were inferiors in sea keeping, range, and their deck protection was subpar. Their AA system was too sofisticated for the time with all guns and FCS in stabilised mounts and give some problems. Italian 15" guns had a penetrating performance almost like 16" of Iowas.

Overall is not surprising that Iowas were better, Littorios were designed with Treaty in mind and started to be build in 1935.

http://www.battleship.org/html/Articles/IowaClass/Armor.htm for TDS problems. One thing is not refered there is that the speed requirements limited the beam at A turret place and degraded the underwater protection there.

The Italians admittedly cheat when they run for maximum speed - they did not honor the loading rules. But the Littorios could make 36 knots, the fastest capital ships in history as far as I know. OTH an Iowa probably could sustain 30 knots or above (depending on hull condition and boiler condition) longer than any other capital ship - the main issue for sustained speed on a steamship being boiler feed water - and the Iowas could make more than they needed - which is unusual. Ships designed for the Med didn't have the range requirement - and that is a design advantage too - but it does not make a ship inferior. It just fits its requirement. And yes - the Italian 15 inch guns are very fine - indeed most 15 inch guns are remarkably good. It is also fair to say the Iowa design was not as constrained by Treaty limits. More than that, they were not constrained by cost limits (except insofar as great cost prevented two from being completed).
Dili
Posts: 4742
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:33 pm

RE: Can i use Canon slots for airplane Bombs?

Post by Dili »

Never Littorios made 36kt, you must making some confusion with other ship. The trials gave 31,something kt with slighty more than 41000t. Full load was 44-45000t so their speed was around 30kt.
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