MWIF Game Interface Design

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: amwild

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I am now deep into the code for air missions and I came across a problem - for which I have a possible solution. What I am proposing is a different solution from the one used in CWIF, so I want to see what your opinion is.

The situation is that a player wants to perform an air mission for which activity limits are in effect. Now as long as a player controls all of his own units, there is no problem. But consider the case where a unit has been 'loaned' to another player. By loaned I am using the same meaning that CWIF has, which is that the unit's actual move is being made by a player other than the official owner. There are many examples of this: a German unit in north Africa, an Italian unit Russia, a US unit in the United Kingdom. What players are permitted to do, is to 'loan' units to each other.

[snip]...

CWIF sends a message over the Internet and checks with all the other players' computers to bring the local computer up-to-date on the number of air missions remaining, only then does it permit the mission to be flown. I have problems with this solution for several reasons, one of which is that two messages may pass each other over the Internet and the same problem as before arises.

My solution is to require a player with a loaned unit to request limited actions from the owning player. That is, Germany would have to request X air missions from Italy. Italy either grants them to Germany or not. I would keep track of available air missions not only by major power, but also by player. What I like about this is that the German player can not fly air missions unless he has prearranged it with Italy. The solution is nice and clean, for once Italy has given away X air missions, both players' computers know exactly what missions they can and can not perform.

The same solution applies to land and naval moves, land combats, etc.

So long as no units have been loaned to other players, this problem never arises. Even then, if the owning player has unlimited air missions (land moves) available, the problem doesn't come up.

Since most of the time this is a non-problem, I want a solution that does not require sending messages over the Internet. That is another reason I was unhappy with how CWIF handled this situation.

As long as one player can say "I don't really need all these moves, have some more/back," this would be good - as long as before ending the impulse both players can be sure that they have either used all available moves, or know that they have unused moves that they don't want to use (not that I can ever reasonably expect that to happen often...)

I already have the variables defined for holding this information and it is easy to place the checks for sufficient activities remaining into where the current check is. What I need to do next is figure out how to display the current status of who has how many of each to the players. Once I have that worked out, I can design the form for the players to use to request and grant exchanges of limited activities.

This is low priority for me at the present though.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I only have two more pieces of code to write for scenario setup. One is to let players set up partisans after all other units have been setup. That is fairly minor and should be easy to do. Here is the more difficult piece.

This is my first pass on the screen for requesting and granting lend lease of air units. This form will appear once for each side before anyone sets up any units. That will enable players to acquire lend lease air units for their force pools prior to drawing units for setup. The form will also be available during the production phase.

What I am showing here is what the Chinese player sees when he wants to request a lend lease air unit. By pressing the button Request Unit, a message will be sent to the US player (in this case it is the US who is the source country for the B-24J). The US player will see the same form but with different content. In particular, he will see which unit(s) he will lose from his force pool if he grants the request. He gives his decision by pressing Grant or Deny.

Either player can press the button Lend Lease Group to see all the air units in the selected unit's lend lease group. In this case it would be all the B-24Js. In the future the US player could demand his unit back by pressing the Demand Unit button.

Still early days for this form, I'll have to see how it works out in practice. But not bad for a few hours work.

[Froonp]

I like it.
I hope that the only lend lease planes that will be present in this form are planes of the current or previous year only.
Looks like they are all available here, independently of the year.

Also, maybe you should write "Demand Unit Back" on the button, instead of "Demand Unit", it may be clearer.

Also, for the US (or other lender), how does it look ?

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I have upgraded the Opening screen by adding a button for joining a new NetPlay game, as shown below.

The person who starts a new game I am calling the Starter (duh, but sadly it took me some time to come up with that name).

The industry standard isn't Starter, but Host. The person who starts the game hosts it. Everyone but the host is a Client.

People will yell at you, (because they've never used the program notepad) and demand a "Host a game button", and a "Join a game button".

Don't worry Grognards will only throw ageing SPI counters.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I like it.
I hope that the only lend lease planes that will be present in this form are planes of the current or previous year only.
Looks like they are all available here, independently of the year.

Also, maybe you should write "Demand Unit Back" on the button, instead of "Demand Unit", it may be clearer.

Also, for the US (or other lender), how does it look ?

This form is already year sensitive. I chose Darkness before the Dawn as the scenario (I think) because I wanted to display planes from all the Allied countries.

If there is room I'll make the change, or at least make it "Demand Return".

I don't know how the lender side looks, I haven't coded it yet.

I do these things in stages. On Monday I designed the form (a couple of hours). On Wednesday I populated the form with units (another couple of hours). Today (Thursday) I'll spend a couple of hours and hope to get the form to appear correctly as part of the sequence of play for both sides, switching between players who make requests. Then I'll push on to coding the Lender's side, where a second unit will be displayed to the right of the unit data panel (under Unit Lost).

I find that by setting things like this aside for a day or so after accomplishing a 'milestone', I have a much clearer vision of how to proceed the next time I look at it.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I have upgraded the Opening screen by adding a button for joining a new NetPlay game, as shown below.

The person who starts a new game I am calling the Starter (duh, but sadly it took me some time to come up with that name).

The industry standard isn't Starter, but Host. The person who starts the game hosts it. Everyone but the host is a Client.

People will yell at you, (because they've never used the program notepad) and demand a "Host a game button", and a "Join a game button".

Don't worry Grognards will only throw ageing SPI counters.

Host isn't quite right for the MWIF design. There will be the person who starts up the game and after sides are determined there will be 2 team leaders (Axis and Allied leaders). Communications over the internet will go through the team leader to the other side's team leader. This design permits all players on one side to review decisions as they are formulated and gives the responsibility of the formal commitment to the side's decisions (e.g., Action choices) to the team leader. I think this coordination is necessary, though I could be wrong, and other solutions possible.

Which means that the role of host as a central clearing house for commnications/decision making and keeping the game state current is divided between the two team leaders.

I do use the phase "Join a game" though.

EDIT: P.S., Starter is the correct term when playing golf, so I'm just using a sports metaphor[;)].

[Shannon V. OKeets]

New code: here is what the form looks like from the lender's side - though the requesting major power can see this view too if he wants to.

The French player is requesting a P-40E Hawk 87C which is comparable to the US P-40E Kittyhawk. France is the Requesting major power and the US is the Source country. [I have the Chinese background displayed here. The same player controls all the Allied major powers so there is really no point in changnig it for the French Request Unit or the US Grant Request.]

The Chinese or the British could request the same unit. Only one of these 4 air units can be in the force pools/on map at any point in time.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here the US has 5 Skytrains, which the other Allied major powers call Dakotas. The US could lend lease all 5 air units to its allies if it wanted to. If it grants less than 5 requests, then which one it loses from its force pool is randomly drawn. I have to figure out a way to communicate that when a Source air unit has already been lend leased.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

This screen shot shows the British as the Source country for Spitfire IXs. Notice that the numbers don't always match precisely.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

The USSR as the Source country.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

5th and last in the series. Germany as the Source country for the Italians.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
If it grants less than 5 requests, then which one it loses from its force pool is randomly drawn. I have to figure out a way to communicate that when a Source air unit has already been lend leased.

Randomly drawn ?
Doesn't the source major power choose which one he "looses" when there are multiple choices ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
If it grants less than 5 requests, then which one it loses from its force pool is randomly drawn. I have to figure out a way to communicate that when a Source air unit has already been lend leased.

Randomly drawn ?
Doesn't the source major power choose which one he "looses" when there are multiple choices ?

The rules don't really say. I assumed it was randomly drawn, like other draws from the force pool. But it makes no difference to me; I can ciode it either way.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
If it grants less than 5 requests, then which one it loses from its force pool is randomly drawn. I have to figure out a way to communicate that when a Source air unit has already been lend leased.

Randomly drawn ?
Doesn't the source major power choose which one he "looses" when there are multiple choices ?

The rules don't really say. I assumed it was randomly drawn, like other draws from the force pool. But it makes no difference to me; I can ciode it either way.

I tend to agree with Patrice here. The numbers show how I understand 13.6.4 Lend lease ~ Foreign aircraft.

Original: WiFFe-RAW-7.0.pdf

Foreign aircraft

(1) Some aircraft units have colored horizontal stripes matching another major power’s color. Don’t add these aircraft to your force pools when they enter the game. Put them into the lend-lease pool instead.

(2) During set up or this step, you can move a striped aircraft from the lend lease pool to your force pool if:

(3) The source major power agrees; and

(4) An aircraft with the same designation is currently in either the source major power’s force pool or its reserve pool.
Move that other aircraft from the force pool or reserve pool to the lend lease pool.

(5) The source major power can reverse this process during this step if the striped aircraft is in the force pools or reserve pool. Move it back to the lend lease pool and move the matching aircraft to the source major power’s force pool.

Example: At the start of 1943, the Commonwealth is eligible to receive an F4U-1. Because it is striped, Jeremy must put it into the lend-lease pool. He asks Jay if he can add it to the Commonwealth FTR force pool. Jay, worried about German pressure, declines, arguing that he needs it himself. In Jul/Aug 1943, Jay realizes that the Commonwealth probably needs this plane more than he does. Noting that the F4U-1 is still in his force pool, he tells Jeremy he can have it if he still wants it. Eagerly, Jeremy moves the Commonwealth F4U-1 from the lend-lease pool to his FTR force pool. The US F4U-1 goes into the lend-lease pool.

China may not place US sourced aircraft in its force pools until US entry option 1 (build Chinese aircraft) has been picked.

Original: IMO

(1) When a source major power has an aircraft unit that has a colored horizontal stripe matching another major power’s color (2) and it is during the setup or lend-lease stage.

(3) If the source major power wants to (4) and currently has an aircraft with the same designation in either their force pool or reserve pool.

(2) Instead of The source major power moving the air unit to their force pool or reserve pool. They may move it to the non-source major power’s lend-lease pool.

(5) Or the source major power can move air units from the non-source major power’s lend-lease pools to their force pools or reserve pool.

In cases of multiple air unit of the same type in the non-source major powers lend-lease pool units selected by the non-source major power would be random.

Your example of the C-47's would require:

2 air units with a colored horizontal stripe for China.
2 air units with a colored horizontal stripe for the CW.
1 air unit with a colored horizontal stripe for France.

Not just 5 C-47's air units.

Or if your leaving distribution of "Foreign aircraft" to the source major power (as in your C-47 example). You would have to have the actual air units being offered for lend-lease.

[Froonp]

Your example of the C-47's would require:

2 air units with a colored horizontal stripe for China.
2 air units with a colored horizontal stripe for the CW.
1 air unit with a colored horizontal stripe for France.

Not just 5 C-47's air units.

Or if your leaving distribution of "Foreign aircraft" to the source major power (as in your C-47 example). You would have to have the actual air units being offered for lend-lease.

I don't understand what you don't find good in what Steve posted (except for the randomely drawn source plane).
There is no need of those lended colored planes.
Just as it is, it is ok.

[composer99]

My own interpretation of the rules on this is that the major power doing the lending can pick the plane to be transferred from his/her force pool to the Lend-Lease pool if there is more than one eligible plane.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

My own interpretation of the rules on this is that the major power doing the lending can pick the plane to be transferred from his/her force pool to the Lend-Lease pool if there is more than one eligible plane.

Ok. That's how I will code it. Unless I hear objections ...

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

My own interpretation of the rules on this is that the major power doing the lending can pick the plane to be transferred from his/her force pool to the Lend-Lease pool if there is more than one eligible plane.

Ok. That's how I will code it. Unless I hear objections ...

I agree with composer99, so, no objections from me.

[Arron69]

This is how i would read the rules.

Andi

[Mziln]

Original: MWIF Game Interface Design Post #742

This is my first pass on the screen for requesting and granting lend lease of air units. This form will appear once for each side before anyone sets up any units. That will enable players to acquire lend lease air units for their force pools prior to drawing units for setup. The form will also be available during the production phase.

What I am showing here is what the Chinese player sees when he wants to request a lend lease air unit. By pressing the button Request Unit, a message will be sent to the US player (in this case it is the US who is the source country for the B-24J). The US player will see the same form but with different content. In particular, he will see which unit(s) he will lose from his force pool if he grants the request. He gives his decision by pressing Grant or Deny.

Either player can press the button Lend Lease Group to see all the air units in the selected unit's lend lease group. In this case it would be all the B-24Js. In the future the US player could demand his unit back by pressing the Demand Unit button.

This is a basic order entry form. The non-source major power places an order with a source major power.

Assumptions:

“before anyone sets up” means "before the games initial unit setup phase".
“The form will also be available during the production phase” means you can request lend-lease during your production phase instead of the lending stage.

Please explain:

How does the form derive the availability of air units?
How does the form derive how many air units the Chinese may order?
Do the Chinese order one air unit at a time and wait for confirmation of the order or order all the air units they want at once?
Are the Chinese allowed to order more than they can purchase during a production phase?
When can you “Demand” the air unit back? Before or after the air unit is purchased during the production phase?

Original: MWIF Game Interface Design Post #747

Here is what the form looks like from the lender's side - though the requesting major power can see this view too if he wants to.

The French player is requesting a P-40E Hawk 87C which is comparable to the US P-40E Kittyhawk. France is the Requesting major power and the US is the Source country. [I have the Chinese background displayed here. The same player controls all the Allied major powers so there is really no point in changnig it for the French Request Unit or the US Grant Request.]

The Chinese or the British could request the same unit. Only one of these 4 air units can be in the force pools/on map at any point in time.

This is a basic order confirmation form. The source major power Grants/Denies the order of a non-source major power.


Assumptions:

The use of “lender's side” should read “source major power side”.
"Source country" means "source major power".

Please explain:

Are the Chinese or the British requesting the same unit?
If the Chinese or the British are not requesting the same unit why display the air unit for them at all?
Why can only 1 of these 4 air units be in the force pools/on map at any point in time?