Consolidated wish list

Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich is a improved and enhanced edition of Talonsoft's older Battle of Britain and Bombing the Reich. This updated version represents the best simulation of the air war over Britain and the strategic bombing campaign over Europe that has ever been made.

Moderators: Joel Billings, harley, warshipbuilder, simovitch

User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 10303
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm
Location: UK

RE: Dropper's wish list (recon mostly)

Post by Dixie »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

at them moment, will have to say it is on the list and not in yet, we would like to be able to allow BC to be able to switch, but right now, they are a night only type

(early war, middle war and late war, BC did try to fly daylight raids, but overall, most were done in the dark, and oddly, in the end, they were still taking much heavier losses flying at night, then they would of had they flown in the day)

That's good to know that they are on the list. I appreciate that daylights were not a major part of BCs effort, Harris disliked sending them against any 'panacea' targets (everything except cities really) Although they were not a main part of operations they were common enough that the groups, especially No.1 Group, devised high visibility markings to assist with the form ups.
Out of curiosity, how much of the game engine do BoB and BTR share? As I recall the LW bombers in BoB could be assigned to day or night raids.


Image
Attachments
Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (9.7 KiB) Viewed 307 times
[center]Image

Bigger boys stole my sig
Knockout Dropper
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:50 am
Contact:

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Knockout Dropper »

bump, original message has blue, new stuff .
Hell's Angels
User avatar
harley
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by harley »

ORIGINAL: Knockout Dropper

Knockout Dropper's wish list:

Cool to view for the german player would be a list of captured allied pilots in a "View Stalag Pilots" screen. Their kills could be viewed. Maybe a morgue as well.

An Honour Roll, yes. Space is an issue though... Either way, it's going to have to wait...



gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy
User avatar
Hard Sarge
Posts: 22145
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:00 am
Location: garfield hts ohio usa
Contact:

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Hard Sarge »

11) Another thing that gripes me is that the Axis ALWAYS has swarms of jets much earlier than historically. Can we just put in a "historical" OB for the Axis to use? If the Axis AI gets early jets, why cannot the Allied AI get B29s and whatever. The more that I read about engine supplies and production generally in Europe the more aware that I become that it is too easy for the Axis side to improve their condition over historical... somehow they never seem to come out worse than historical, so it is not a random distribution.

a couple of issues show up here

one, the game was set up, with the 262 and engines already in production, so, they ended up being used for reseach, and so the plane was ready early in the game, as it was being reseached from the get go (the idea, was, if they player want to reseach it, they could take away from other planes that needed to be built, to spend time reseaching it

another hassle, was the training/testing unit, this unit becomes ready on so and so a date, if it is ready and formed, then the plane must be ready, so it can have planes to fly and test, so the plane was geared to be ready, with out reseaching it, by the date that the Kommado was to be formed

so, long story short, I not giving you free reseach, you have to do that on your own, and take away from planes that could be built, to try and get something that may be built

and the start date of the plane has been pushed back, the date that was being used, was not for a production model, but for one of the test models
Image
User avatar
von Shagmeister
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:46 pm
Location: Dromahane, Ireland

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by von Shagmeister »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
11) Another thing that gripes me is that the Axis ALWAYS has swarms of jets much earlier than historically. Can we just put in a "historical" OB for the Axis to use? If the Axis AI gets early jets, why cannot the Allied AI get B29s and whatever. The more that I read about engine supplies and production generally in Europe the more aware that I become that it is too easy for the Axis side to improve their condition over historical... somehow they never seem to come out worse than historical, so it is not a random distribution.

a couple of issues show up here

one, the game was set up, with the 262 and engines already in production, so, they ended up being used for reseach, and so the plane was ready early in the game, as it was being reseached from the get go (the idea, was, if they player want to reseach it, they could take away from other planes that needed to be built, to spend time reseaching it

another hassle, was the training/testing unit, this unit becomes ready on so and so a date, if it is ready and formed, then the plane must be ready, so it can have planes to fly and test, so the plane was geared to be ready, with out reseaching it, by the date that the Kommado was to be formed

so, long story short, I not giving you free reseach, you have to do that on your own, and take away from planes that could be built, to try and get something that may be built

and the start date of the plane has been pushed back, the date that was being used, was not for a production model, but for one of the test models

The Me 262 program was dealt a severe blow on 17Aug43, the very date that BTR starts. The USAAF raid on Regenburg destroyed the airframe jigs for the Me 262 setting the program back by who knows how long. The Allies didn't even know what they had done or that the jigs were there to begin with. So if the jigs hadn't been destroyed by accident the Me 262 could have been operational much earlier, this is represented quite nicely in the game. As Sarge says if the Axis player wants advanced types in service before the real date then he has to devote the necessary resources to do it. If the Allies destroy the relevant factories then no research gets carried out or is at least impeded.
Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum

User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 10303
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm
Location: UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Dixie »

This isn't really a wish, more of a question.  In the old version it seemed that if a night bombing unit was intercepted then 90% of the time the squadron leader went down in flames, has this been tweaked?
[center]Image

Bigger boys stole my sig
User avatar
von Shagmeister
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:46 pm
Location: Dromahane, Ireland

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by von Shagmeister »

ORIGINAL: Dixie

This isn't really a wish, more of a question.  In the old version it seemed that if a night bombing unit was intercepted then 90% of the time the squadron leader went down in flames, has this been tweaked?

It's not just night bomber squadrons but all units of whatever nationality that seem to suffer a disproportionately high level of leader losses.
Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum

User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 10303
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm
Location: UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Dixie »

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

ORIGINAL: Dixie

This isn't really a wish, more of a question. In the old version it seemed that if a night bombing unit was intercepted then 90% of the time the squadron leader went down in flames, has this been tweaked?

It's not just night bomber squadrons but all units of whatever nationality that seem to suffer a disproportionately high level of leader losses.

I didn't notice it so much with day bombers, probably because several planes are often lost at once. With night bombers the losses usually happen singly so they seem more obvious.
[center]Image

Bigger boys stole my sig
User avatar
harley
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by harley »

ORIGINAL: Dixie
This isn't really a wish, more of a question. In the old version it seemed that if a night bombing unit was intercepted then 90% of the time the squadron leader went down in flames, has this been tweaked?

It is a fact that when a unit came up against another unit the lowest ID pilot came up first. First to kill, First to die. I have marked the code for pilot selection, with the intent of going back to it later to make this either random v random, random v list in order, or list in order v list in reverse order. All ideas have strengths and weaknesses.

Though all that said - the good Gruppes with strong leaders and skilled pilots would target the lead formation. Whilst it might not always be the CO there, it would have had the lead bombardier...
gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy
User avatar
davidjruss
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 11:03 am
Location: Derby, England

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by davidjruss »

Harley,


Just as real life can be a lottery , to make the game as realistic as the code will allow, should there not be a degree of randomness as to which personnel are "removed from the game " either permanently or for a certain number of days whenever a unit is in action and pilots/crews lost.
Bomber crews and fighter piots did not know from one day to the next what fate would have in store for them.

DavidR
HMSWarspite
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:38 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by HMSWarspite »

I have thought about this for a while. There are probably different approaches required for different aircraft catagories, but I have always thought that skill level should be a factor (and the posts above are very similar to the ideas I have been having). For any encounter I would weight the list by skill. So if all pilots are the same skill, they all have an equal chance of being the casualty. If skills vary, the chance of being shot down should be weighted by (1-pilot skill)/unit_total_(1-skill), for each pilot (so a hypothetical 90 skill pilot has 1/9th the chance of being shot down as a 10 skill pilot). This would tend to make 99 skill ace pilots very much less casualty prone in big formations, with the newbies getting chopped more often. However, if a unit gets massacred, the aces will go as well! To improve this even more, the combat could be like this:

Fighter vs Fighter. Attack in skill order (highest first), and pick targets randomly, weighted as above (they pick on the newbies because they are a little bit out of formation, or given the less sexy positions in the formation away from the lead etc), then use the target skill as a modifier to the chance to shoot down (I have always assumed this is the case, but I just thought I would check). This would mean the skilled pilots get the kills, but find it harder to shoot down the experts.
[Edit: New thought. Rocket attacks should be random targets to reflect the inaccuacy, and general point and pray aiming systems]
Figher vs bomber. Attack in skill order as above. This time, maybe a random (linear) choice in target, or maybe roll against skill. If they pass, start from the top of the bomber skill list, if they fail, start from the bottom, or weighted random choice? This would reflect the silled pilots going for the leads, and the less skilled tending to pick on the newbies or the fringes of the formation.

I know this is complex, and maybe random vs random is good enough (certainly for bombers), but I have stats for fighters that show the chance of getting shot down after the first combat drops significantly for fighters, and continues to drop very quickly until about 5 combats by which time it is about 1/10th of what it is in combat 1 (note: I am doing this from memory, since I can't find the right book, but the principle is definitely sound. Also Combats is not the same as flights, the unit has to engage the enemy, although not necessarily fire guns, and the newby may just be confused the whole time and never get close to firing!)

How's about something like skill based shoot down chances guys?
I have a cunning plan, My Lord
User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 10303
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm
Location: UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Dixie »

During night raids (as most people are no doubt aware) by 1943 the RAF flew in a stream.  The entire squadron would not be occupying the same small area of airspace as a daylight formation would and the first a/c from a squadron could be any member of that unit.  The 'form up' consisted of circling above the UK until height was reached when (in theory) the whole stream would turn on their course.  Even if the squadron did fly together in the stream picking the squadron leader from the other planes would be nigh on impossible.  Obviously such losses occured, but certainly not on the scale of 5 commanders lost from 10 a/c I had shot down in a raid.

PS: Is it ready yet?

PPS: How about now?  [:D]
[center]Image

Bigger boys stole my sig
User avatar
harley
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by harley »

ORIGINAL: Dixie

PS: Is it ready yet?

PPS: How about now? [:D]

You sound like my boss at work...

For all suggestions - remember that these line-ups will occur thousands of times per day, so less complexity the better. It's very hard to duplicate the operational/tactical circumstance of each flight, so this is going to have to be a one-size-fits-most selection, and I have some ideas on that...
gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy
jcjordan
Posts: 1900
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:00 am

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by jcjordan »

I would vote for a random chance as thats what combat basically comes down to if it's your time, it's your time but with some kind of modifier for skill/exp because better pilots would be able to get to live another day. Not terribly complex just a simple random selection from the list with a modifer for difference between attacker/defender exp.
 
PPPS - Is it ready now???
 
How about that Quagmeyer? [:D]
HMSWarspite
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:38 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by HMSWarspite »

ORIGINAL: harley

ORIGINAL: Dixie

PS: Is it ready yet?

PPS: How about now? [:D]

You sound like my boss at work...

For all suggestions - remember that these line-ups will occur thousands of times per day, so less complexity the better. It's very hard to duplicate the operational/tactical circumstance of each flight, so this is going to have to be a one-size-fits-most selection, and I have some ideas on that...

In that case: NF vs night bombers, skill order vs random
F vs day bombers skill order vs random
F vs F skill order vs reverse skill order.

If you have to do (literally) one size fits all, I think Skill order vs random for all would be the way to go (IMHO). However, the number of attacks a given pilot makes per sortie is also not quite right (too often do I see 3 and 4 kills in a few minutes. Maybe a vastly reduced chance of multiple kills in quick succession...
I have a cunning plan, My Lord
User avatar
Hard Sarge
Posts: 22145
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:00 am
Location: garfield hts ohio usa
Contact:

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Hard Sarge »

However, the number of attacks a given pilot makes per sortie is also not quite right (too often do I see 3 and 4 kills in a few minutes. Maybe a vastly reduced chance of multiple kills in quick succession...

well, at night, that is how it happened ?

once you got into the stream, you were busy

busting up stragglers, well, depends on what is what and where

overall though, it is Fuel, you got the gas, you can stick with the fight and the longer you are in the fight, the better chance you have of getting into fights

of course, where it gets to be a pain, you spot a straggler, dive down into a bounce, you are now low, and can be the target of a bounce yourself
Image
User avatar
17poundr
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:04 am

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by 17poundr »

I hope that the interface will be as intuitive as possible. I would like to see some of the features from TOAW-3 borrowed. For example, make the unit symbols as military'ish as possible, not grotty picturs of mini planes, of if so, then make them realistic, like the ones in Pazer general (the fist pc version, where even the small airplane pics, were all clearly easy to identify as the plane they reprecented).

Hex based map would be exellent if possible, also as then it would be easy to see a combat range just by telling it in hexes...

Also, an intuitive menu of options for each unit by usage of the right mouse button would be ace!

I have seen only too many games ruined in having to unnesessarily go and click a little icon, where the right mouse button menu, would serve the same purpose much better!!!

Also, to make attacks as realistic as possible, a 'combat planner' option somewhat similar to the one in toaw-3 would be good. I would hopefully have options for grouping various units into larger units, and also give options as to which units would fly 'tail end charlie', and which units at which altitude... All of this ofcourse is easy then to factor in by commonsence tables, that the computer will compute with great ease, after all counting is what it does in essence!!!

Having a turn based, but 'being able to effect the enemies turn, or a very slow realtime action, so that commands can be given without the panic that some games have in their realtime fighting...

After all, the planners of ww2 air combat had hours or days to set up op's, and a staff of many men, so when one man has to make these desicions, it's ridiculous to have a timeline like a real air battle, unless you can freese the time and change orders to some units....

Infact the way that the game Combat Mission does it, where you give orders, the enemy gives their orders, and a minutes worth of combat with the troops following those orders ensues, not perfect but it works...

All I'm saying is that the planning should have lot's of options, as to what kind of things to hit, wether to give autonomous raiding capacity for the escorts if not have used up their fuel/ammo in defending their escorted planes...

Also, air op's not only as strat bombing, but also, coastal command anti sub and later anti German shipping mostly off the coast of norway, would be good to include... The desert has a very versatile combination of missions for the airmen, with the RN aviators co-operating with RAF medium bombers in doing exellent night time interdicion to the axis trying to avoid the growing allied air interditiction by driving their trucks only at night. The allies would have RM aircraft carriers off the coastline of the axis main coastal highway, and let their Albacore's come and loose off flare's, in various places of the highway, when an axis truck convoy was thus spotted, the Albacore/s in question would radio the co-ordinates in for the loitering allied medium bombers (usually wellingtons), who would come in, to the contiually lighted up axis trucks, and carpet bomb them with scores of small bombs! This kind of operational variety would be great to have!!!

And also the full spectrum of axis wartime production should be able to be targetted, not only those that were in ww2.
To make my point clear I'll borrow the words of Hermann Göring, who said in Nuremeberg to allied aviation interviewers, "We never understood why you tried to find a 'choke' point in (for example)ballbearings, if you had hit our explosives industry, something we constantly prayed wouldnt happen, our capacity to conduct war would have been seriously compromised!!!

This was ofcourse talking of targets that were in range of the 43.early44 USAAF, but after the Aviano, and B-17 'shuttle raids'(the ones that landed onto Red Army concuered territory, and then flew back, and btw on one occasion were hit bad by JU-88s, when for political reasons their P-51s were not allowed to lift off to give cover, as the red airforce was supposed to do that but they were nowhere to be seen on that day..)! When these two kind of raids got to the ploesti airfields, then a real 'chocke point' was found, but it could have been found much earlier by hitting the explosives industry...


All, I'm saying is that try to make it realistic, give lot's of options, and the inevitable fog of the party being bombed, being allowed to move and give camouflage of all kinds to their factories, bridges ect, airstrips, ships and their ports ect ect... An option for the defender to try and confuse the enemy as to where their assets are and to move them if possible, and to use plans to confuse the enemy (such as using flares of the same colour in the wrong places to confuse the Bomber Command night raids, or the usage of smoke screens to confuse the USAAF bombers, or the usage of swapping bomber airfields to fighters ones, as the brits did, or using autobahn as runways as the germans did, ect)...

And, please think of playability! The right mouse click menu for options of action for a selected unit, is the best way to improve intuitive play imho.

Also automatically lighting up the area of range, and when given choise of different weapon loads, with (for fighters), various drop tank combos, then the area of the lighted up range automatically changes... And please include light bombers and even fighter bomber of the USAAF 9th bomber force, or RAF Mosquito and beaufighter units, or German light-tactical bombers... Also, their missions that frequently were in suport of ground troops, sometimes even special forces, would be great to see included... Also in Normandy fighting the D-day landings, and operations Goodwood, Cobra and later on Market-Garden, Varsity ect, had massive carpet bombing by huge numbers of allied heavy bombers... Somethign that the Germans did also on a smaller scale in their assault phase...


Ok, I hope that something of what I wrote about will be considered, or is already under consideration.... And please allow expandability, so that your game can receive patches that not only fix bugs, but can give new options, or even (and I dont mind paying for this), expanding theaters of war, or even 'what if' planes, campaigns ect... Or applying the same game machine to Korea, Vietnam (great scope here, Rolling Thunder ect)!, to the Arab-Israeli, Russian Afganistan-Checnya, desert storm, anti Serb, Afganistan and Iraq-2003 onward, to ww3 in Europe with 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s options to see what the difference in the modernized equipment would do... All the way to modern 'what ifs'...

So, you see, that to make the game a hit, so that such expancion scenario packets can be sold, I beg of you to really think of the playablity, and look at how toaw-3 has a great capacity to simulate classic Avalon Hill boardames with it's intuitive, but still classic game play screen... please try to apply this to your game!

AS for the air combat, (if there is to be such a dimention, I do not know), for me Sturmovik is the measuring stick, only that in Sturmovik for beginners sometime one flew and flew without ever finding the enemy that was so ellusive, please try to look at the classic lucas arts games of Secret weapons of the lufwaffe, and see how one can find the enemy with ease, without making it an automatic process...

Image
Attachments
Dambusters..ingafter.jpg
Dambusters..ingafter.jpg (72.01 KiB) Viewed 307 times
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.

"Gunner, panzer eleven 'o' clock, shoot"!
User avatar
Hard Sarge
Posts: 22145
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:00 am
Location: garfield hts ohio usa
Contact:

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Hard Sarge »

ORIGINAL: 17poundr

I hope that the interface will be as intuitive as possible. I would like to see some of the features from TOAW-3 borrowed. For example, make the unit symbols as military'ish as possible, not grotty picturs of mini planes, of if so, then make them realistic, like the ones in Pazer general (the fist pc version, where even the small airplane pics, were all clearly easy to identify as the plane they reprecented).

I not sure we talking about the same game :)
we will have Aircraft tops, Line-box, and Icon to show raids, planes in the air, most of the old timers play with the line-box


Hex based map would be exellent if possible, also as then it would be easy to see a combat range just by telling it in hexes...

no hexes, game is based on miles, if you have the range to fly 300 miles, you can fly out to 300 miles, unless something happens to make you drop fuel or burn gas, you start to run low, you turn for home
so LW tactic of trying to force US Fighters to drop tanks works, only, 4 planes running into a FG will only force a few planes to drop tanks, the rest will hold on to them and carry on



Also, an intuitive menu of options for each unit by usage of the right mouse button would be ace!

well, pretty much, if you got the range, you can reach the target, if you don't have the range, you will not be allowed to go, now escourts, may not be able to fly all the way to the target, but will fly part way, and the limit they can go will be shown on the target plot


old engine that is being rebuilt, so lot of the engine can only use what it was designed for, Harley and Waynno have done great work with getting the game to work better then it did before, but we can not use what is standard now, when it wasn't able to be done then


I have seen only too many games ruined in having to unnesessarily go and click a little icon, where the right mouse button menu, would serve the same purpose much better!!!

Also, to make attacks as realistic as possible, a 'combat planner' option somewhat similar to the one in toaw-3 would be good. I would hopefully have options for grouping various units into larger units, and also give options as to which units would fly 'tail end charlie', and which units at which altitude... All of this ofcourse is easy then to factor in by commonsence tables, that the computer will compute with great ease, after all counting is what it does in essence!!!

raid planning can be as HARD and detailed as you want, or close to as simple as you want, you can have the staff did most of it, or you can do all of it yourself, fighters can be set based on 10s, 100s or 1000s feet, so if you want the 56th FG to fly at 2560 ft above the raid, you can do so, or use the standard of 2000 (I like around 4000-5000 ft above, if I got enough units, then some above and some below that)

also, we have a number of waypoints to be used to plot the raid, which can be used with the UI or with the mouse clicks



Having a turn based, but 'being able to effect the enemies turn, or a very slow realtime action, so that commands can be given without the panic that some games have in their realtime fighting...


we have standard time, and some speed up times, you can also stop the game, also, if you set to patrol or intercept, the game stops



After all, the planners of ww2 air combat had hours or days to set up op's, and a staff of many men, so when one man has to make these desicions, it's ridiculous to have a timeline like a real air battle, unless you can freese the time and change orders to some units....

Infact the way that the game Combat Mission does it, where you give orders, the enemy gives their orders, and a minutes worth of combat with the troops following those orders ensues, not perfect but it works...

All I'm saying is that the planning should have lot's of options, as to what kind of things to hit, wether to give autonomous raiding capacity for the escorts if not have used up their fuel/ammo in defending their escorted planes...

Also, air op's not only as strat bombing, but also, coastal command anti sub and later anti German shipping mostly off the coast of norway, would be good to include... The desert has a very versatile combination of missions for the airmen, with the RN aviators co-operating with RAF medium bombers in doing exellent night time interdicion to the axis trying to avoid the growing allied air interditiction by driving their trucks only at night. The allies would have RM aircraft carriers off the coastline of the axis main coastal highway, and let their Albacore's come and loose off flare's, in various places of the highway, when an axis truck convoy was thus spotted, the Albacore/s in question would radio the co-ordinates in for the loitering allied medium bombers (usually wellingtons), who would come in, to the contiually lighted up axis trucks, and carpet bomb them with scores of small bombs! This kind of operational variety would be great to have!!!


Shipping as of now is not in, we had hoped to be able to work it in, but it is still on hold for later, with out the ships, alot of the anti ship units have also been put on hold


And also the full spectrum of axis wartime production should be able to be targetted, not only those that were in ww2.
To make my point clear I'll borrow the words of Hermann Göring, who said in Nuremeberg to allied aviation interviewers, "We never understood why you tried to find a 'choke' point in (for example)ballbearings, if you had hit our explosives industry, something we constantly prayed wouldnt happen, our capacity to conduct war would have been seriously compromised!!!

targets ? well, we got lots of targets the player can pick from, and with in reason, all of them effect something (odd, the Mauser works was never bombed (think it took some damage once, but as a side effect of another target) the people who worked there never understood why they were never targetted)


This was ofcourse talking of targets that were in range of the 43.early44 USAAF, but after the Aviano, and B-17 'shuttle raids'(the ones that landed onto Red Army concuered territory, and then flew back, and btw on one occasion were hit bad by JU-88s, when for political reasons their P-51s were not allowed to lift off to give cover, as the red airforce was supposed to do that but they were nowhere to be seen on that day..)! When these two kind of raids got to the ploesti airfields, then a real 'chocke point' was found, but it could have been found much earlier by hitting the explosives industry...

Close, but it was a massive night raid, so the 51s wouldn't of been able to do much, but it was a massive raid and did very good damage

All, I'm saying is that try to make it realistic, give lot's of options, and the inevitable fog of the party being bombed, being allowed to move and give camouflage of all kinds to their factories, bridges ect, airstrips, ships and their ports ect ect... An option for the defender to try and confuse the enemy as to where their assets are and to move them if possible, and to use plans to confuse the enemy (such as using flares of the same colour in the wrong places to confuse the Bomber Command night raids, or the usage of smoke screens to confuse the USAAF bombers, or the usage of swapping bomber airfields to fighters ones, as the brits did, or using autobahn as runways as the germans did, ect)...


some is already in, some really can't be done


And, please think of playability! The right mouse click menu for options of action for a selected unit, is the best way to improve intuitive play imho.

Also automatically lighting up the area of range, and when given choise of different weapon loads, with (for fighters), various drop tank combos, then the area of the lighted up range automatically changes... And please include light bombers and even fighter bomber of the USAAF 9th bomber force, or RAF Mosquito and beaufighter units, or German light-tactical bombers... Also, their missions that frequently were in suport of ground troops, sometimes even special forces, would be great to see included... Also in Normandy fighting the D-day landings, and operations Goodwood, Cobra and later on Market-Garden, Varsity ect, had massive carpet bombing by huge numbers of allied heavy bombers... Somethign that the Germans did also on a smaller scale in their assault phase...


Ok, I hope that something of what I wrote about will be considered, or is already under consideration.... And please allow expandability, so that your game can receive patches that not only fix bugs, but can give new options, or even (and I dont mind paying for this), expanding theaters of war, or even 'what if' planes, campaigns ect... Or applying the same game machine to Korea, Vietnam (great scope here, Rolling Thunder ect)!, to the Arab-Israeli, Russian Afganistan-Checnya, desert storm, anti Serb, Afganistan and Iraq-2003 onward, to ww3 in Europe with 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s options to see what the difference in the modernized equipment would do... All the way to modern 'what ifs'...

So, you see, that to make the game a hit, so that such expancion scenario packets can be sold, I beg of you to really think of the playablity, and look at how toaw-3 has a great capacity to simulate classic Avalon Hill boardames with it's intuitive, but still classic game play screen... please try to apply this to your game!

AS for the air combat, (if there is to be such a dimention, I do not know), for me Sturmovik is the measuring stick, only that in Sturmovik for beginners sometime one flew and flew without ever finding the enemy that was so ellusive, please try to look at the classic lucas arts games of Secret weapons of the lufwaffe, and see how one can find the enemy with ease, without making it an automatic process...

this will not have any flight simming in it, it is all Stat

Image
Image
Knockout Dropper
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:50 am
Contact:

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by Knockout Dropper »

How about a smoke battalion that can be activated during the german's reaction phase?  Say you get ten of these,and they have to be positioned before the day's raids. Either the player can activate them for a few hours(which would be kind ofdifficult from a programming standpoint, since nothing like that already exists), or the computer can automatically employ them.  They could add obscurity to the target that could reduce the damage to or completely obscure the target.
Hell's Angels
HMSWarspite
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:38 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

RE: Consolidated wish list

Post by HMSWarspite »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
However, the number of attacks a given pilot makes per sortie is also not quite right (too often do I see 3 and 4 kills in a few minutes. Maybe a vastly reduced chance of multiple kills in quick succession...

well, at night, that is how it happened ?

once you got into the stream, you were busy

busting up stragglers, well, depends on what is what and where

overall though, it is Fuel, you got the gas, you can stick with the fight and the longer you are in the fight, the better chance you have of getting into fights

of course, where it gets to be a pain, you spot a straggler, dive down into a bounce, you are now low, and can be the target of a bounce yourself

I was referring to day attacks - I had one make 3 kills in 5 minutes, on a formed unit only the other day (not odd as a one off, but it happens too often)
I have a cunning plan, My Lord
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich”