Super Dreadnought CV's ..

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

Hey as an FYI in my mod the CV Units:
1)  Have lower air combat
2)  Have range 3 instead of 4
3)  Tech mods are updated
4)  Have higher Naval Attack instead

I just downloaded your mod to give it a try. I stopped playing this game, waiting for an AI patch, but I might give a couple of the mods that have popped up here a try in the meantime.

Otherwise, I've gone back to spending the bulk of my game time on beta testing BFTB scenarios. MY Race for the Meuse AAR managed to sell at least one person on the game so I consider it at least a marginal victory! [:)]

[Vypuero]

Ok - though I am not sure how it will be vs. AI - I suggest playing the Axis, as I think the Allies will be too easy.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

Ok - though I am not sure how it will be vs. AI - I suggest playing the Axis, as I think the Allies will be too easy.

Almost all games I play against an AI is played as the protagonist.

While AIs can sometimes present a decent challenge in defense, they are usually worse than dismal in attack.

[IrishGuards]

Is it possible to take the CV's off the strategic for labs .. [&:]
IDG

[Vypuero]

Yes it is possible to, or to adjust it, why?

[IrishGuards]

To say the least its ridicolous that CV's have any strategic abilities that can effect the balance in any way .. [8|]
IDG

[Vypuero]

strategic tech includes range - so for example their range increases.  That I would keep. 

[IrishGuards]

Why would they get a land spotting benefit ... and why range ... they should have a very short range ...
Sea spotting .. ok .... but the other 2 .. and combine this with Dog Fight .. CV's are way to powerful ...
IDG

[Vypuero]

Look at the tech tree I provided and it maps out what they get.
It is much more limited than the basic game - see for yourself.
 
They do get some slight range increase, but that is reasonable as they got better aircraft during the course of the war.

[Vypuero]

FYI - open the tech spreadsheet.  Cross reference the CV column with the tech advances, so for instance if there is a check on Level 3 dogfight, they get that tech, but if there is no check, they don't get that advance.

[Vypuero]

Also, open the spreadsheet for units to view the new base stats and costs of each unit.

[targul]

CV's are absurd in this game.  They bomb inland targets.  Cant think of a single example of that in Europe.  Even on DDay.
 
No reason for the Allies to build anyother type of aircraft since the CV does it all.
 
It is sad but the battles for France come down to CV battles against the German air.  This does give the Allies the edge in France making it more difficult then it should be.  The battles for Africa turn out to be the same a battle of CV's against the land based air. 
 
It might be okay if the land based air could really hurt the CV's but nope it is rare to harm the CV enough to make them go repair.
 
If this was the Pacific these CV's would be accurate but not in Europe. 
 
 

[Vypuero]

In Torch they were used to support the landings.  They can also get smacked pretty hard by Fighters.  It is not that hard to kill them.  That said, my changes make them much weaker against land-based air.

[gmothes]

The reccomendation that I saw that I think is best and needed is a "Naval Air" unit, that is seperate from the Ship itself, and can consequently be made much weaker than land based fighters and catered to attacking ships and submarines.

[targul]

I am in France at this time two carriers off the coast. Fighters can do 0-1 according to the odds. If that is smack them okay but I call that carrier better then fighter. BTW Axis fighter has two marks up and is at 10, carrier is at 7. Attacking them is suicide for the Axis.

First the land based fighter takes more damage and then you need to leave the objective Paris alone to make that attack. It is a joke and not a good one.

[firepowerjohan]

Targul can you provide some more complementary information? Effectiveness of the units, Carrier experience, dog fight tech level. In normal cases, fighers beat Carrier that is a fact according to the unit stats. Add in a commander for your ground forces and that gap will increase even more since naval units do not get leadership boosts while air units do.

But a unit with no effectiveness will not fight, so just stating unit type and strength does not tell the whole story. How a 0-1 odds means suicide is simple not true, 0-1 means that both units are likely to take hardly or no damage.

[targul]

I have a leader present only a 40 point one but still he is a leader.  I have increased level 4 and he level 2.  I have 2 marks of increase him none.  So 0-1 makes no sense for odds.  But I have as many times found those attacks go very badly.  I attacked 0-1 and took attacker losses 3 defender 1.  This is so typically I cant count the number of times I have seen it.
 
Now this is what you see almost everytime. I only made the attack to show you the results.  Now you may not call this suicide but since it happens almost everytime it might as well be.  You keep up these attacks your air goes away his carrier laughs.
 
So if the fact is fighters beat carriers I have not seen it and from the posts the players are not seeing it either.
 
 

[firepowerjohan]

Carrier white effectiveness (72), no tech, no experience 
Fighter white effectiveness (83), no tech, no experience

Carrier vs Figher odds 2:3
outcome
Carrier lost 2 strength, figher lost 1 strength

(I ran another similar battle where carrier lost 3 and figher 2 so I do not see any odd pattern)


My guess is that you use demoralised fighters against fresh carriers, that would explain why you get a "0" in the odds calculation.

[IrishGuards]

In 1 game ,, no names here .. LOL .. I had a german ftr .. 1 ensign ... 9 or 10 strength ...
In 1940 .. attacked a CV in london port .. he was a 7 yellow ..
German Ftr took 1 damage .. CV took 5 .. Oh dear ...
IDG

[targul]

White fighter yellow carrier.  Sorry but 3-1 seemed inappropriate.
 
I have never gotten 7 damage vs a cv with anything in this game.  1940 to 1944.
 
Best I have done is sub hit one once for 5.  I gave that U Boat Commander the Iron Cross.