The Falklands Conflict

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


I think I just figured out what a "Trot" is. Trotskyites? I am afraid to ask what a "poof" is. [:D]

Correct. A poof in this case is not a cheesy snack, but rather a gentleman who prefers the company of other like-minded chaps.

[GreyFox]

I think I just figured out what a "Trot" is. Trotskyites? I am afraid to ask what a "poof" is.

 
You got trot alright, a poof though is a homosexual - Guy Burgess worked for the BBC for a while and he was one of Kim Philby's "friends". According to Wiki:
 

The FBI described him in a report as "a loud, foul-mouthed queer with a penchant for seducing hitchhikers."

 
He was a part of the Cambridge Five.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
After the show, Thatcher's husband Denis lashed out at the producer of the show in the entertainment suite, saying that his wife had been "stitched up by bloody BBC poofs and Trots."[12][:D]

Lol, the legacy of Guy Burgess lasted a long time for opponents of the BBC

I think I just figured out what a "Trot" is. Trotskyites? I am afraid to ask what a "poof" is. [:D]

Umm...let's just say...(putting on a fake Meh-hican accent) "man who like men like wimmen" [;)]

Cheers, Neilster

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


I think I just figured out what a "Trot" is. Trotskyites? I am afraid to ask what a "poof" is. [:D]

Correct. A poof in this case is not a cheesy snack, but rather a gentleman who prefers the company of other like-minded chaps.

[:)] That was my leading suspicion. "poof"...Gay Burgess...got it.

[JudgeDredd]

It's not coming back on topic, is it? [8|]

I think Ike was probably just shouting out that being as he considers it a war crime, then it would most likely be covered under the Hague convention. I'm sure he didn't think you buggers would go looking chapter and verse...indeed he probably didn't know what he was biting off.

Ok...so his first few posts here were a bit "shooting the mouth off", and maybe they didn't get any better, but lets not hound the lad.

I'm sure he regrets taking you bunch on....

But could we please get back on topic and discuss "The Falklands Conflict" and the tactical / strategic issues therein.

I'm not concerned who has what rights to live there or own them. I was there and I think I can very much speak for the people when I say they would very much rather stay British than become part of any other nationality.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

It's not coming back on topic, is it? [8|]

I think Ike was probably just shouting out that being as he considers it a war crime, then it would most likely be covered under the Hague convention. I'm sure he didn't think you buggers would go looking chapter and verse...indeed he probably didn't know what he was biting off.

Ok...so his first few posts here were a bit "shooting the mouth off", and maybe they didn't get any better, but lets not hound the lad.

I'm sure he regrets taking you bunch on....

But could we please get back on topic and discuss "The Falklands Conflict" and the tactical / strategic issues therein.

I'm not concerned who has what rights to live there or own them. I was there and I think I can very much speak for the people when I say they would very much rather stay British than become part of any other nationality.

Relax, man. It is a thread on the internet, not a think tank conference. I made two important additions to my vocabulary today.

BTW..that was a wild story about that island East of the Falklands
which had the research station captured by the Argies.

South Georgia...,had to look it up.

Recapture of South Georgia and the attack on the Santa Fe

The South Georgia force, Operation Paraquet, under the command of Major Guy Sheridan RM, consisted of Marines from 42 Commando, a troop of the Special Air Service (SAS) and Special Boat Squadron (SB Sqn) troops who were intended to land as reconnaissance forces for an invasion by the Royal Marines. All were embarked on RFA Tidespring. First to arrive was the Churchill-class submarine HMS Conqueror on 19 April, and the island was over-flown by a radar-mapping Handley Page Victor on 20 April. The first landings of SAS troops took place on 21 April, but — with the southern hemisphere autumn setting in — the weather was so bad that their landings and others made the next day were all withdrawn after two helicopters crashed in fog on Fortuna Glacier. The first Royal Navy ship to arrive was the type 42 destroyer HMS Glasgow.

On 23 April, a submarine alert was sounded and operations were halted, with the Tidespring being withdrawn to deeper water to avoid interception. On 24 April, the British forces regrouped and headed in to attack the submarine. On 25 April the ARA Santa Fe was spotted by a Westland Wessex HAS Mk 3 helicopter from HMS Antrim, which attacked the Argentine submarine with depth charges. HMS Plymouth launched a Westland Wasp HAS.Mk.1 helicopter, and HMS Brilliant launched a Westland Lynx HAS Mk 2. The Lynx launched a torpedo, and strafed it with its pintle-mounted General Purpose Machine Gun; the Wessex also fired on the Santa Fe with its GPMG. The Wasp from HMS Plymouth as well as two other Wasps launched from HMS Endurance fired AS-12 ASM antiship missiles at the submarine, scoring hits. Santa Fe was damaged badly enough to prevent her from submerging. The crew abandoned the submarine at the jetty at King Edward Point on South Georgia.

With the Tidespring now far out to sea and the Argentine forces augmented by the submarine's crew, Major Sheridan decided to gather the 76 men he had and make a direct assault that day. After a short forced march by the British force, the Argentine forces surrendered without resistance. The message sent from the naval force at South Georgia to London was "Please inform Her Majesty, that the white ensign flies alongside the union flag on the isle of South Georgia. God save the queen". Prime Minister Thatcher broke the news to the media, telling them to "Just rejoice at that news!"[10]

[GreyFox]

Well I do know that at the start of WW1 a submarine was not allowed to sink a commercial ship bearing thee enemy flag (be it freighter or passenger liner) until the crew and passengers aboard had been given a certain time period to abandon ship. This led to instances off the coast of America in International waters where German U-Boats would surface and tell the target to abandon ship and proceed to blow it out of the water while American warships that were escorting the vessels were unable to intervene.

I'm not sure if it was part of the Hague Convention or not, but I do know it was abandoned in practice partway through the war - partly because Churchill ordered merchant vessels to be armed - when the sub surfaced to order the crew to abandon ship they would then open fire - the Germans wouldn't know if a ship was one of these camoflaged warships until the last instant and was a large factor in the sinking of the Lusitania as she was marked as being armed in German intelligence papers - and it did not cover warships. Perhaps this is what Ike is referring to?

After a short forced march by the British force, the Argentine forces surrendered without resistance.

Weren't those the fellas that swore to die to the last man rather than surrender? Only they did, without firing a single shot. I think they're called war heroes in Argentina.

[Ike99]

GreyFox...What the conflict was about: A military dictatorship needed
to distract the people with a good war and so stoked up an obscure claim that
because they once owned the Falklands for a seven year period between the Spanish
and British ownership, they should have it now.

I must respectfully disagree with you Greyfox. If you understand Spanish...
the people were shouting ¨Military dictatorship no! Malvinas yes!¨ in the
plaza during the war. Not ¨We love you Galteri!¨ The conflict has nothing
to do with the type of government Argentina had or has but (in our view)
land stolen from us. Land stolen 150 years ago, 5 years ago or yesterday.
When it was stolen is not the point. The point is it was stolen.

GreyFox...Weren't those the fellas that swore to die to the last man
rather than surrender? Only they did, without firing a single shot. I think
they're called war heroes in Argentina.

GreyFox...British veterans will testify the Argentines fought very hard up
to the point of surrender. How else would more British soldiers have been
killed in just a couple months than have died in Iraq in 3 years? Many say
they were suprised by the Argentines. As Judge Dredd said it was hand to hand
and bayonet fighting. The Argentine Army speculates it could have held out
for 2, possibly 3 weeks more but as the British controlled the seas totaly,
the air partially and the outcome was inevitable under these conditions they
ordered surrender. This is why the fighting was very hard and then suddenly not.
Not because the Argentine ground forces were broken. Later after the order
came down to surrender is when you had 300 Argentines surrendering to 6 British
soldiers and so on. The BBC saw this and created the myth that everyone simply
gave up at first shot. The Argentine ground forces fought until they were ordered
to surrender and the majority never even got engaged.

7th Somersets....It is sad that you believe that there is still a conflict.
I hope that your view is not shared by others.

Well this very statement shows you don´t know much of what is going on with
this conflict. Not suprising really when most can`t find the place on a map.
In defense of Judge Dredd I´m sure when he began this thread he, like most
here it seems, view this as ¨history¨ and not an on going thing because they
are simply not aware that the ¨Falklands Conflict¨ is an ongoing conflict.
Not a historical conflict.

Well if it is an ongoing thing or ¨history¨ and if anyone shares my views
have a look and tell me what you think.

Falkland fear as Argentina steps up show of strength
BRIAN BRADY WESTMINSTER EDITOR
2006

AN INCREASINGLY anxious UK government is closely monitoring a build-up of
Argentinian military strength and a series of confrontations with the RAF
close to the Falkland Islands, Scotland on Sunday can reveal...Downing Street
is facing growing fears for the future of the islands - which were seized back
from Argentinian control in a bloody and symbolic campaign ordered by Margaret
Thatcher almost a quarter of a century ago...Several planes are believed to have
overflown island airspace in a bid to test RAF defences. A number of Falkland
vessels have been seized in waters close to Argentina...But critics warn that
the garrison, which costs more than £110m a year, is hopelessly inadequate for
fending off any renewed threat from abroad...In recent years, the Argentinian air
force has doubled in size, and is now the largest in South America...The Argentine
air force is at least twice the size of that we fought during the Falklands War
and the question has to be asked: how many more aircraft do they need?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirchner's perfect timing
Commentary by Sam Logan for ISN Security Watch (05/04/07)

During his inaugural speech in May 2003, Kirchner proclaimed he was a "presidente malvino,"
meaning his would push to bring the Falkland Islands back under Argentine control....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Argentina ups the ante in new battle over Falklands
Ewen MacAskill, and Uki Goni and Oliver Balch in Buenos Aires
Friday June 30, 2006
The Guardian

There are three perennial passions in Argentina: football, the tango and the country's claim to the Falkland Islands, Britain's South Atlantic outpost. Even the build-up to Argentina's World Cup game against Germany today failed to entirely deflect attention from what in the last few months has become the hot political issue. In the latest of a series of provocative moves - at least as seen from the Falklands and the Foreign Office - the Argentinian parliament yesterday....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarin
2006
En el acto central para conmemorar el desembarco argentino en las Islas Malvinas, ocurrido el 2 de abril de 1982, el presidente Néstor Kirchner aseguró que la recuperación de ese territorio “es un objetivo permanente e irrenunciable del pueblo argentino” y le pidió perdón a los ex combatientes, muchos de los cuales estaban presentes en el acto....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Argentina snubs UK over oil deal
By Sophie Arie
03/04/2007

Argentina snubbed Britain yesterday when it announced it was severing an agreement over oil and gas exploration just days ahead of the anniversary of its invasion of the Falkland Islands. The decision, carefully timed for maximum impact before Monday's 25th anniversary of the invasion, signalled a deterioration in relations between the countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falkland Islands An Unsettled Issue 25 Years After War
Contending Claims by Argentina, Britain Burden Relations as Anniversary Nears
By Monte Reel
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, January 8, 2007; Page A11

Last week Argentina aimed yet another rhetorical dart at Britain, publicly reasserting its claim to islands it says were stolen by the English in 1833. The British should be getting the message by now: President Nestor Kirchner's government in the past year has issued official complaints concerning rights to the islands at a rate of more than one per month....The Argentine government has pushed for, and has received, attention from the United Nations, which drafted a committee resolution last year recommending negotiations.




There are many more you can find and even more in Spanish.
So what do you think 7th Somersets? Is it ongoing and does anyone share my opinion?

[GreyFox]

GreyFox...British veterans will testify the Argentines fought very hard up
to the point of surrender.

Oh I know and respect them for it. My ire is reserved for those who bombastically proclaim there going to fight to the death and never surrender and then just drop their arms at the frst sight of the enemy. Say one thing, do another etc.

The rest of your stuff looks like all talk and posturing and is hardly proof of why Argentina should own the Falklands, nor evidence that the war is continuing today. Your use of the word 'conflict' could perhaps stem from a less than perfect understanding of the english? Or just a poor choice of words.

Land stolen 150 years ago, 5 years ago or yesterday.
When it was stolen is not the point. The point is it was stolen.

It can be argued that Argentina stole it from the Spanish Empire/British Empire since both had claim to it and settlements on it before Argentina ever existed. And when you did have it, you used it as a penal colony.

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

Is it ongoing and does anyone share my opinion?

No and I don't.

[DuckofTindalos]

Nope, you're pretty much alone here...

[EUBanana]

Re. "is the conflict ongoing", I have no doubt that the Argies may well attempt to invade the sovereign territory of another country yet again.

Something the MoD should bear in mind.

[7th Somersets]

Ike 99 - just so that you have some information on war crimes:
 
A war of aggression is a crime under customary international law and refers to any war waged not out of self-defense or sanctioned by the UN.
 
The Falkland Islands are internationally recognised as British. Any Argentine attack would constitute a war crime (a war of aggression) unless sanctioned by the UN.
 
As has been pointed out previously in these posts - there is now an International Criminal Court to deal with war criminals.
 
I note that you have also not bothered to answer any questions about the history of the Falkland Islands BEFORE the Spanish involvement. I wonder why?
 

[Raverdave]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

Is it ongoing and does anyone share my opinion?

Pffffttt [8|]

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

It's not coming back on topic, is it? [8|]


But could we please get back on topic and discuss "The Falklands Conflict" and the tactical / strategic issues therein.

..yup, ok..

..is it only me that remembers that the last UK forces were pulled out, by our dear and much beloved Maggie, spits three times and washes mouth with carbolic, just before the invasion, at a time of high political rhetoric..

..damn woman, should have had her mouth filled with molten lead..

..oh and Ike99

I myself find it amazing how 2,000 kelpers trick the British people into paying millions of pounds for their own personal island in defense year after year by throwing a few kisses to the queen and ought loyalty to Britain.

..naughty boy, you promised to be good...

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

Ike 99 - just so that you have some information on war crimes:

A war of aggression is a crime under customary international law and refers to any war waged not out of self-defense or sanctioned by the UN.

..cough*cough* h'Iraq*cough*cough

[Ike99]

"is the conflict ongoing", I have no
doubt that the Argies may well attempt to
invade the sovereign territory of another country
yet again.¨

I don´t think Argentina will attempt to recover
sovereign territory stolen from it by the British
with force again. Doesn´t have to. Everyone knows
the British were ready to give them back right up
to the 1982 war anyways and a couple times before
that. A now public document by Argentina presented
to Britian and accepted in 1968 read...

"The government of the United Kingdom will recognise
Argentine sovereignty over the islands with effect
from a date to be agreed."

But the Islanders kicked the peace table and it was
scrapped.

Before the 1982 fighting the UK was ready to
take away the Islanders British citizenship
and let Argentina have it back. Something I
myself consider very dirty. Why not give them
dual citzenship? The kelpers travel to Argentina
all the time right now for business, vacation,
etc. because obviously it much closer than
the UK. An Argentine and Kelper even fell
in love and were married recently and they let
him go live there.

If Britian would be rational and allow free
travel both ways I think the situation would
very quietly resolve itself and the Malvinas
become what they are, a part of Argentina,
not Britain.

But if not...Argentina will continue its
position and keep raising the threat against
them. The Russians were just here offering
to sell us everything they had. Of special
interest was the SU-30 fighter. Very long
range and able to destroy the British Tornados
on the Malvinas in about 1.5 seconds.
(Venezuela bought some)

So this will make Britain spend more millions
of pounds in defense of the place so they can
keep a sheep farm in the South Atlantic.[8|]

(If this situation sound completely stupid
to anyone not from Britian it is because it is.)

Either way, by making them too expensive or
simply allowing free travel between island and
continent the Malvinas are going to be Argentine.
Reasonable minds in Britian are going to prevail
and the only place your going to find that ¨ridiculous¨
looking flag with a ¨sheep¨ on it (@dixie)
in 100 years is a British or Argentine museum.
--------------------------------------------
I do want to share the song I mentioned before.
I´m thinking my British friends here never heard of it.

This song is about a British
soldier coming to fight against us and was on the radio during the fighting everyday in 1982. I don´t know what they played on the radio there in 82´. ¨Don´t cry for me Argentina¨ or some shite like that.[:D]

Anyways, you can hear it here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apWYterpo8M

And here are the lyrics translated..

¨Queen Mother¨

Smiling he said goodbye to his mother,
he was going to the South Atlantic,
the Kingdom ordered that,
there were some savages that attempted to
disturb the order of the Empire and they will pay
for that with tanks, planes, ships, bullets

Mother, don't worry the world is like this,
they come from the south of the Earth,
what can they do to us?
We are different, we are better

But mother...what's happening here
they are the same as me
and they love this place
this place is so far from our homes
and I don't even remember its name
why am I fighting
why am I killing?

Today the Queen is walking along her gardens
The sun kisses her roses, life smiles at her
Parlament tries to keep everything fine
so nothing will disturb their peace
and then they will watch a new release
where a famous film director will tell stories
about war and men will be all full of emotions
The Queen and they will clap at the good ending.

but mother...what happened there?
they were the same as me
and they love that place
that is so far from our homes
and that I don't even remember its name
why was I fighting, Oh my god.
why was I killing?

Never again, Never again, Never again

[a white rabbit]

..naughty..

..po'try do'n't go down well..

..don't even think of putting up a white man's burden, s'an instant thread closer..

..but for music of that time, mmmmm, Final Cut by Pink Floyd [8D]..

[Ike99]

..naughty..

..po'try do'n't go down well..

Someone might find it interesting.

..don't even think of putting up a white man's burden, s'an instant thread closer..

Not really sure what you mean....calling Argentines chimpanzees didn´t. But closing this thread wouldn´t bother me at all.

..but for music of that time, mmmmm, Final Cut by Pink Floyd ..

Really? That´s interesting.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

Ike 99 - just so that you have some information on war crimes:

A war of aggression is a crime under customary international law and refers to any war waged not out of self-defense or sanctioned by the UN.

..cough*cough* h'Iraq*cough*cough

Hey! Come on man! I seem to remember that Saddam was in cahoots with the terrorists and that we were about to be nuked and that "The smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud" and...oh...that was all a complete load of old bollocks wasn't it? [:D]

Oh...and please don't take offence anyone. It's a joke. Completely true of course. [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster