FOF unit traits/abilities for CoG2

[Khornish]

I do like the unit upgrades (traits and abilities) in FOF, but a straight port from FoF to CoG2 would be less than desirable.

Being that FoF is a brigade level game and CoG2 is division level, we're really not comparing the same functions. The upgrades appear to be (in FoF) primarily based on combat arm (infantry, cavalry, artillery).

Instead, why not allow traits and abilities based solely on unit type? Light infantry can earn the "woodsmen" trait, but line units can't. We can purchase "sharpshooters" for the light infantry as well, but not for line infantry.

Line infantry are eligible for volley fire upgrades (+10% dmg), but light infantry are not. Guard infantry would be able to get the "Heroes" trait and then perhaps purchase an ability that beefs up the trait, but other units would not.

The same format would be followed for allowing eligibility (for the traits and abilities)to cavalry, light cavalry, guard cavalry, foot artillery, and horse artillery.


Also, I'd like to see the Corps and Army containers have staff quality levels AND the ability to learn a trait or two. Container level traits should be limited to forage/supply benefits, and initiative benefits for strategic movement, and perhaps a training/discipline (quality increase to divisions)benefit.

I can definitely see where such a system would give a more historical flavour, especially when comparing the French III Corps to I Corps in 1806.

[ericbabe]

That might be a good way to do it.  Any other ideas for abilities?

[Mus]

Some of the abilities in FOF were national upgrades in COG if I recall correctly. "Wild" ability was Mixed Order if I recall, an upgrade France started with.

It will be tricky to decide for ablities that were upgrades in COG whether to remove it and leave it as an upgrade only, but I also like the idea of restricting certain abilities between light, line and guard infantry to give them more flavor.

If an ability and an upgrade have the same effect it should stack somehow. It is annoying when a unit learns an ability all of your units come with "stock" from upgrades.

Man its been awhile since Ive played COG, I need a refresher. I remember there were multiple cavalry types in COG. Making them able to learn from specific sets of abilities would be nice too.

PS Will there be LUs in COG2? Realize its probably more difficult to research since the Napoleonic Wars spanned so many countries/languages, but it would be neat to have them as well.

[Gil R.]

Dusting off your copies of COG might be a good thing for some of you to do. We'll be needing some testers before too long, and players with experience at both COG and FOF will be quite valuable to us.

[Mus]

Gil where is the most recent COG patch? I think last time I played I was using a beta patch waiting on the next official release.

[Khornish]

ORIGINAL: Mus
It will be tricky to decide for ablities that were upgrades in COG whether to remove it and leave it as an upgrade only, but I also like the idea of restricting certain abilities between light, line and guard infantry to give them more flavor.

This can also help contrast the various qualities of units which are the same type. For example, not all light infantry regiments (well, divisions in this case) would necessarily have the same skills.

Generally, as a class, light infantry would be able to traverse difficult ground much more easily than line infantry. So, we could say that light would get that ability as a trait for each such division. [This is an over-simplification, to be sure, but I am merely pointing out the results and not the method for this example.] However, some units would become more adapt at working in forests and others in towns/villages, or in hills/mountains. We'd then see those units as having the appropriate abilities, whether we purchase them as an upgrade, or have them assigned as a leader-based upgrade.

If an ability and an upgrade have the same effect it should stack somehow. It is annoying when a unit learns an ability all of your units come with "stock" from upgrades.

I agree.

[Khornish]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

That might be a good way to do it. Any other ideas for abilities?

Depending on time constraints this weekend, I was hoping to generate a list of all traits and abilities in FOF and present my recommendations as to how they would appear in COG2. This, of course, would be to help inspire others to share their own ideas and comments in this regard.

The same could be done for COG, but I don't remember where the comprehensive list of upgrades is located and I currently lack the time to search.

I do think this may be the "right way", as you say, or it may be a path to see the right way.

[ericbabe]

http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=306

I thought we released a V1.2.26 that fixed one thing from 1.2.25, but I don't see 1.2.26 on this page.  I will e-mail Matrix about it.

[Joram]

Umm, I need to refresh my memory too but isn't the scale different?  I seem to remember CoG used a divisional scale as opposed to a brigade scale.  I think this would be important in determining what kind of attributes a unit would have.  I'm not sure if I'd classify a whole division as "wild" for instance.
 
But some of the upgrades still might make sense like pioneers/engineers (I think this would be consolidated into 1), attached artillery.  Hmm, maybe add a "grenadier" upgrade. 

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=306

I thought we released a V1.2.26 that fixed one thing from 1.2.25, but I don't see 1.2.26 on this page. I will e-mail Matrix about it.

my last verison is 1.2.26

maybe it was set up in the private area and not the patch area ??

[Hard Sarge]

yea that is what I was thinking,

1.2.26 is under members downloads

while 1.2.25 is under patches

so the one was never updated to the newer verison

[Khornish]

ORIGINAL: Joram

Umm, I need to refresh my memory too but isn't the scale different? I seem to remember CoG used a divisional scale as opposed to a brigade scale. I think this would be important in determining what kind of attributes a unit would have. I'm not sure if I'd classify a whole division as "wild" for instance.

But some of the upgrades still might make sense like pioneers/engineers (I think this would be consolidated into 1), attached artillery. Hmm, maybe add a "grenadier" upgrade.

Yes, FOF is brigade level, COG is division.


I agree that not every trait or ability should work in the same way as it does in FoF, nor should they all be included. However, I do think with a bit of effort the traits and abilities that do cross over can be implemented in such a manner as to add to the historical flavour of the game without adding a "gamey" feel.

Engineers should really be a corps level upgrade. So if the corps and army staff rating plus abilities be allowed, then we could see an engineer upgrade at that level.



BTW, I'm still wanting a battalion/squadron level game. <vbg>