AAR swift vs fochinell

Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich is a improved and enhanced edition of Talonsoft's older Battle of Britain and Bombing the Reich. This updated version represents the best simulation of the air war over Britain and the strategic bombing campaign over Europe that has ever been made.

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fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

4th November 1943. 73/2133 Allied losses/sorties, 56/972 Axis.

In the ETO: Tactical strikes by small forces of B-17's and the Tac Air in Belgium; again OKL concentrates on the escorts, with 14 P-47D lost but no B-17's. BC hit Frankfurt am Main PORT with 4 Group; no NJG resistance, and only 3/216 Halifaxes lost. [:)]

MTO: Tactical strikes, all ignored apart from 19/64 A-20's lost on a strike on Rimini RR (pushed the Bostons out a little too far that time; their range, lack of defensive armament and fragility make the Marauder a better bet for provoking fights) supporting the main 15th AF attack on Venice PORT, which misses both primary and secondary due to cloud cover. OKL has shifted most of their forces in Italy north of the Po river, and the major combat takes place against this raid, with 8/96 B-24J going down and 20 P-38L lost.

Overall a limited allied success; this is the kind of moderate level of attrition I need to impose on the LW between the major attacks. Weather permitting...

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17poundr
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by 17poundr »

Your game sounds just like a game I would love to play!!! Now, can you give me a link to it here on matrix so I can go and order it, or do you think it's for people who have the patience to learn about 50 different air control commands to pilot a plane, because Sturmovik is just about my limit in learning flight controls...

And I do think that the idea of creating your own campaigns, so that you get to choose where and when with what is bombed sounds great!!!

So, please somebody give me a link to order this game please!!!

Mr Poundr. [&o]

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17poundr
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by 17poundr »

Hey guys, I tried to get to order this game, it IS the Gary Grisby air war strategy game that they say is not available yet isnt it??? [&:][&:][&:]

I hope it's like when toaw-3 was just arround the corner and obviously copies of toaw-acow wouldnt be sold anymore as the toaw-3 game would be hitting the 'shop' anytime, but people were still writing about their toaw scenario gaming experiences, and somebody who didnt know all of this would have been just as confused as I'm right now yes???

I hope so, if not could some kind soul just give a link to the game you guys are talking about, as it shure sounds like a game I want to have!!!

Thanks for the juicy accounts of your battles!
Yours truly,
Mr Poundr.

ps, anybody wishing to pbm a toaw-3 game, please contact me!

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Hard Sarge
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by Hard Sarge »

okay just in case

the ARR is from the old game, and it may be HARD to find, EBay or something

our game is a remake of BoB and BTR and is still being worked on, so can not be ordered yet


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Reg
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by Reg »

ORIGINAL: 17poundr

Hey guys, I tried to get to order this game, it IS the Gary Grisby air war strategy game that they say is not available yet isnt it??? [&:][&:][&:]

I hope so, if not could some kind soul just give a link to the game you guys are talking about, as it shure sounds like a game I want to have!!!

17Pounder,

There is a used copy of the original game on EBay if you are interested. Just go to ebay.com and type the item number '190136389525' into the search field.

I think there were a couple of people who will part with copies if you go through the past posts on this forum as well. (Unfortunately I'm not one of them - I still enjoy playing mine).

We are all looking forward to the revamped version when it finally gets released. (Are we there yet?? Are we there yet??....... [;)] )
Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!
fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

5th November 1943. Allied: 18/939, Axis: 3/66

MTO: Some light tactical strikes in northern Italy. Bad weather plus the inability of the mediums to hit anything when they do bomb means zero bombing results for a suprising 7 RAF Mitchells lost to Flak. [:@]

ETO: A relatively successful Typhoon strike on Ghent RR and a less successful low-level Mossie strike on the ARM site near Rotterdam. 2 Mossies lost for no real damage. No LW opposition as Werner's pilots cower in fear, desperately trying to recover their morale and fatigue before risking combat with the Allied horde. [8D]

5 Group hit Brunswick in a concentrated raid (all bombloads within the city area) but lose 8/312 Lancs to the two Gruppen of Bf110G-4's that come up to play in the bright moonlight on the return leg. Lots of corkscrewing Lancs for a while. A couple of rear gunners fend off some 110's, but none go down until the NI's claim 3 as they come home to land.

The 4th FG and 19 Sqn stand down to re-equip with Mustangs, the Thunderbolts going into the pool for wastage and the Spits get shipped to Italy to re-equip 93 Sqn in MAC, whose Spit Vb's in turn disperse amongst the under-strength Spit Vb units.
fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

6th November 1943: Allied 26/1575, Axis 12/310

Another low-energy day. 205 Group have begun re-equipping their last Wellington X squadrons with surplus B-24D's, so the Wimpey is now out of the game except for the 192 Sqn RCM detatchments in BC, who normally fly 6 sorties or so every night mixed in with the bomber stream.

MTO: More tactical strikes dodging the weather (the 15th AF raid gets cancelled), with the 324th FG hitting the Adriatic AFs with their expendable P-38H's (I need the L's for LR escort work, for which they are critical for until the P-51D comes on stream in quantity), and the 12th AF P-47C's sweeping Cacina Vaga AF again. 8 P-47C's go down in the north for about half that number of 109G-6's, with another 109 going down over the Adriatic.

ETO: Yet more tactical stuff including two B-17F raids on Belgium, with nil LW resistance encountered. Suprise, suprise, and I get the lead group weather 'feature' again, with only two out of four scheduled groups flying. BC active, with 6 Group hitting Vorhalle in the Ruhr for a decent raid; most squadrons hit the urban area, with a couple hitting open country or creeping back into Hagen. One Gruppe of 110G-4's scramble, and lose 3 aircraft to the NI's. The Wild Sau units are active but get no kills despite the bright moonlight. 3/288 Halifaxes lost.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

7th November 1943. A: 54/1455, X: 45/987. Another day of moderate attrition by tactical attacks.

MTO: More tactical fighter strikes across the Adriatic and northern Italy, with one long-range P-38H attack on Ferrara AF up the length of the Adriatic taking heavy casualties (16/96 P-38H lost for 4 claims).

ETO: Tactical strikes to Belgium. 72 2 Group Mitchells actually do some damage to Schaffen AF, and the 64 9th AF B-26B's do similar damage to Tilburg RR for no resistance. The LW finally stir themselves as another joint B-17F raid comes in behind the tactical forces to hit Schaerbeek and Brussels RR, doing some useful damage and taking and inflicting substantial losses in fighter combat in return; 29/288 fighters lost, for 1/124 B-17F and 46 enemy claimed. 15 P-38L and 14 P-47D lost in total this turn, but I'm happy to have OKL soak up their efforts on the fighters for heavy casualties in exchange.

BC attack Mannheim at night, but guess what, yes, another "lead group only" raid, and 43 out of a planned 338 Lancasters from 1 Group hit the target for one loss. [:@] The raid is too small to provoke any NJG reaction, so no NI claims either. [:(]

fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

8th November 1943: A: 108/2071 (29 AA), X: 90/788 (16 grnd). Major losses for a relatively moderate level of Allied activity [:)]

MTO: The first 15th AF raid for days returns to Venice PORT, and a major battle against the LW fighters in northern Italy follows. The P-38L escorts are overwhelmed off the mouth of the Po on the inbound leg, and several Gruppen manage to repeatedly attack the bombers. The gunners defend themselves well, and the bombardiers follow this with total destruction of the port, despite losing 26 bombers from the formation before reaching the target. 10/128 fighters lost, 30/96 bombers for 79 e/a claimed. The supporting tactical raids from the 12th AF and MAC in Corsica do little damage, but their escorts catch a few returning interceptors, claiming 15 e/a for 8 bombers lost to Flak. The A-20C raid to Ravenna RR does less well, hitting an invisible road junction north of the target, but avoids major combat. 10 P-38L and 30 B-24J lost in total. Yee-hah! Other than that some FB attacks on the Adriatic AF's around Spilt and the Baltimores hit an POWER FAC near Rome.

ETO: Some substantial strafing for the first time in ages, as the bombers are grounded by the weather. Heavy Spit Vb losses from the FC sweep up the Seine valley (28) but some e/a claimed, and I suppose several caught on the ground by the ground loss total. A Typhoon raid to the Pas de Calais FAC's fails to find the target, and hits Dunkirk VSITE on the way out, at the price of 16 lost [:(]

BC hits the Hamm RR yards with 3 Groups Lanc III's and Stirlings for minimal casualties - no NJG resistance as usual - and a reasonably concentrated raid.

fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

9th November 1943. A: 15/506 (7 aa); X: 12/319 (6 grd).

ETO: Weather clamps down over the Channel. Not even BC flying. [:@]

MTO: Weather limiting activity again. Some more tactical FB strikes around Split, and strikes and sweeps in NW Italy, the main result being 14 P-47C from the 12th AF being lost. 205 Group return to action after re-equipment with Halifax II's and Liberator D's, with a mediocre full-strength raid on Budapest doing too much agricultural bombing. Axis a/c losses have increased to 260 in the past week, despite the weather, which means the allies are slowly getting back on track to inflicting 1,000 losses per month instead of the miserable total of less than 600 in October 1943.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

10th November 1943. A: 119/2662 (30aa), X: 113/1177 (1 grd). A day of monster attrition from a relatively medium-sized allied effort [8D]

MTO: Sees most of the action, centering around the 15th AF raid to Bolzano RR which attracts the major LW response as it approaches the northern Adriatic coast east of Venice. The LW go for the bombers, in one attack taking 5 B-24J down in one pass [X(] but ignore the fighters and the undistracted P-38L's go to work; 3/238 f, 31/96 b, 78 e/a claimed. Bombing results are nil, but the attrition makes it all workwhile. Several P-38H groups in the 12th AF do some supporting sweeps, and the 33rd FG hits paydirt, claiming 34 109's landing at Aviano AF [:'(] Oh yeah, baby! On the other hand, the tactical forces miss most of the action and lose several bombers to flak, although the MAC Corsican Spit IX wings escorting Mitchells pick off some straggling 109's returning to base at Reggio Emilia.

ETO: The tables are reversed; two 8th AF B-17G raids to RUBBER sites around Cologne attract almost no opposition; 0/238 f, 19/328 b, 10 e/a. The 9th AF Marauders supporting are ignored, while the 2TAF Mitchells attacking the Philips ARM factory next to Eindhoven hit major resistance; 33/122 f, 7/72b, 21 e/a. 22 Spit Vb and 14 Spit IX lost, although a couple of supporting sweeps are cancelled due to weather.

BC have 4 Group hitting Koblenz for a reasonably concentrated raid, only losing 2/216 Halifaxes and NI's getting 3 110's returning to Florennes in return. In total Werner lost 76 pilots KIA and one more MIA - an excellent result even if it cost me some valuable B-24's and reduced group morale for a few turns.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

11th November 1943. A: 29/1090 (13aa), X 37/351 (24 grd). A useful day of moderate strafing as the bombers are grounded by weather. [:)]

MTO: FB strikes around Sibenik and a P-38H strafe to Imotski AF; the usual sort of activity over the Adriatic, and a MAC P-40 strafe of Grosetto and a 12th AF P-47C strafe of Airasca AF in the north. The MAC Mitchells visit Florence and the 12th AF B-26's Reggio Emilia RR, but otherwise a very quiet turn with some small skirmishing.

ETO: Some P-47 strafes of Twente and Venlo pay off, with (I suspect) a Gruppe of Bf-110G-4's at Venlo hit by the 354th FG. 9 P-47D's lost, but the losses are worth it judging by the ground total this turn.

BC: 5 Group hit Falkenberg RR south of Berlin for 4/312 Lancs lost in what looks like a decent raid, with over 200 bombloads in the city area. The NI's claim 8 110's and a couple of Wilde Sau 190's.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

12th November 1943: The Battle of Brunswick. A:163/2025 (18aa), X: 111/1403 (1 gd). Main types lost include 19 Spit Vb, 9 Spit IX, 20 P-38L, 22 P-47D and 71 B-17F. More of that lovely attrition [;)]

MTO: A rare rest day due to cloud cover.

ETO: Major effort from the 8th AF to factories around Brunswick (Salzgitter PORT, Luther AFAC and Bussing NAG EFAC) attracts considerable LW response. Despite no resistance before bombing, only the Salzgitter forces does serious damage to their target. Then a massive air battle erupts between Brunswick the Dutch border as the Zerstorers come up to play with the Jagdwaffe, and inflict substantial casualties with repeated attacks. The escorts are overwhelmed, but even then some of them seem to think their escort duties have been outsourced to somebody else. Particularly disappointing was the the combat debut of the P-51B with the 4th FG, who get two kills for one loss. [:@] Totals for the 8th are 31/467f, 71/384b and 121 e/a claimed.

The supporting tactical raids to a Ruhr STEEL FAC (9th AF B-26's) and Maastricht RR (2TAF Mitchells) attract substantial opposition from the fighters in Belgium, France and Holland. The Spit pilots see most of the combat and generally give as well as they get, for a score of 23/295f, 3/71b and 26 e/a. Some minor strikes by Typhoons on industry in Belgium go well, while some low-level Mossie strikes are less effective.

BC: 6 Group hit Hannover, losing 2/288 Halifaxes. While the NI pilots fail to score for once, one Halifax rear-gunner earns himself a DFM by damaging a 110G-4 which crashes shortly afterwards. [:)] PR also reveals Hamm and Falkenberg RR at 99%. That's what I'm talking about [:'(]
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

13th November 1943: A 44/175 (12aa), X 9/569 (0 gd).

Some strafes in the MTO fail to catch anything, and 16 P-40's and 16 P-38H's bite the dust. Oh well, plenty of them in stock.

14th November 1943: A: 76/2446 (22aa), X: 52/639 (20 gd).

MTO: The main activity is another 15th AF raid to RR in northern Italy, this time Trento, except it only catches some Axis fighters returning to base from clashing with the tactical strikes. No fighters and only 1 B-24J lost, so I'm happy enough even though the attrition is limited.

ETO: The same dynamic in the west; two forces of 100 B-17F hit Duisberg PORT and Guttehoffnungs STEEL. They do some useful damage, but OKL ignore them (1/325 f, 2/200 b and 0 e/a) as well as the supporting 9th AF B-26 strike and goes for the 2TAF Mitchells, who for once do crippling damage to Kattendijk PORT. The Spits do less well than on the 11th, and lose 35/154 f, 4/57 b and only claim 15 e/a in return. The Spitfire attrition is getting a little too high again, and while I'm normally happy to see OKL dissipate their energies against the tactical forces while the strategic bombers get through unopposed, I may have to rest the Spits for a few days or at least scale back their effort [:(].

BC: 1 Group hit Schweinfurt, losing 7/244 Lancasters and doing some concentrated bombing of the city. No NI victims again, so I may need to look again at active NJG bases and check when Werner is sending them up [&:]; only a couple of gruppen active this time. The Mossies hit Berlin yet again (0/23) while 205 Group hit Bucharest, losing 1/172 Halifaxes & Liberator D's.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

15th November 1943: A: 74/1939 (20aa); X: 50/663 (5gd). Some useful attrition in a turn where I expected a lot of weather cancellations. Still limited-scale activity, though. [:@]

MTO: 15th AF to RR target in northern Italy again, this time Venice; 4/144 f, 4/96 b, 24 e/a. The 57th FG P-47C's do some useful work on a supporting sweep, destroying 6 Bf 109's RTB'ing at Vicenza AF.

ETO: 8AF attack Ruhr STEEL targets, but attract no resistance. 1/336 f, 4/128 b, 1 e/a. This time the 2TAF Mitchells evade major contact and hit Interbrabant POWER hard, while the 9AF Marauders en route to Brussels RR see most of the action, losing 5 B-26's to two passes by different Gruppen in JG 2 [X(] Ouch! However, the P-47's and Spits fight back - 19/127 f, 17/64 b and 24 e/a claimed.

BC: 3 Group raid cancelled due to weather. But, to be fair, BC has done OK aside from the spate of "lead group only" raids, and I really should have had more cancellations in the prevailing weather.

16th November 1943: A: 4/358 (2 aa), X: 14/40 (0 gd). Almost all SAS losses this turn. Poor Werner [:'(] Bad weather limits significant activity to BC alone.

BC: 4/264 Lancasters and Stirlings to Bremen, and 0/24 Mossies to Berlin. 3 Wilde Sau lost RTB'ing.

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

17th November 1943. A: 20/687 (10 aa), X: 17/615 (5 gd). A relatively quiet turn.

MTO: Some light tactical strikes and sweeps, one of which hits the freeze-ray and then attracts all the interceptors from northern Italy. Still, losses are easily manageable.

ETO: [>:]

BC: 4 Group hit Bonn; well, they try to, but more than half of them hit a decoy site north of the city. [:@]

18th November 1943. A: 354/3507 (57 aa), X: 199/2893 (6 gd). Yee-hah! At last, some major activity; almost a maximum effort by the 8th AF. 205 B-17's lost in total, but 121 Axis pilots killed in return. [:)]

MTO: The usual B-26 and Mitchell tactical strikes supporting the 15th AF B-24's, with another P-38H sweep to Aviano in support doing well catching some RTB 109's.

ETO: Major attacks by the 8th AF, timed to try and exploit OKL's recent concentration on returning 8th AF raids to sneak some more raids into the Reich at widely-spaced points.

1st group consists of 300 B-17G's with full escort routed south of the Ruhr hitting targets around Frankfurt - Agomer and Rohm RUBBER as well as Hoechster CHEM. As per normal Werner sends his interceptors up to attack on the return leg as the supporting tatical strikes (9AF Marauders & 2TAF Mirchells) appear. 33/528 f, 83/300 b and 150 e/a claimed. The tactical raids do little - 2TAF with 2/306 f 0/71b 2 e/a and 9th AF losing too many bombers for too few claims with 0/141 f, 21/64 b 13 e/a.

Then a second raiding force of B-17F's head for a Ruhr port across southern Holland, only escorted by FC Spit Vb sqns. While the raid avoids substantial resistance, it misses the primary and only hits targets of opportunity on the way out. It also loses a few Spit Vb's when the Axis manage to react. [:@] 27/67 f, 12/160 b and 7 e/a.

Meanwhile a third raiding force of unescorted B-17F's, routed out over the north sea to hopefully delay their appearance on the radar screen and mix their radio activity in with the early force, attempts to hit Hamburg port. While the timing was good, and only a couple of NJG units make contact before it reaches Hamburg, again the weather frustrates and only targets of opportunity get hit and the raiding force gets massacred on the way out. 109/256 b, 76 e/a.

BC: 5 Group go for the AGFA CHEM plant in northern Berlin. My raid replay gives out before they get there, but the raid report and area damage indicates they did hit the target area for 3/334 b while another Mossie raid hits Berlin city centre for 0/23 b.

In total the escorting fighters lost relatively few - 20 P-38L and 9 P-47D as well plus 28 Spit Vb and 2 Spit IX. But the 8th AF escorts were particularly disappointing, doing little to stop concentrated Zerstorer attacks on the return leg of the Frankfurt force. The plan of attack was bold, but to be honest it didn't pay off in terms of bombing damage, with only the Frankfurt force doing anything useful. Overall it was a reasonable attritional exchange, but overall Axis losses as a percentage of their record sortie total are disappointing, while mine hit the 10% level I wanted to impose on the Axis. Overall I'd have to define it as a limited defensive success - although still an expensive one.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

19th November 1943. A: 24/1500 (12 aa); X: 5/118 (0 gd). Back to the usual routine [:(]

MTO: The usual 15th AF B-24 raid on northern Italian RR, this time Trieste, with supporting tactical MB strikes. Ineffective bombing and no LW resistance.

ETO: A 9th AF sweep and some Typhoon attacks on Belgian industry, otherwise pretty quiet.

BC: 6 Group hit Hamburg for 4/288 Halifaxes lost. Seems like a reasonable raid. NJG quiet again.


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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by Hard Sarge »

a good 3 months, how the score, how the losses and such ?


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fochinell
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

HS,

Losses and score on 18th November 1943 were - AS 2, IND 13, TERROR 12.

A: 4,868/123,110 (1350 aa) vs X: 2,616/46,217 (121 gd). Strat bombing score 6,663 and terror 125,840.

More stats and graphs (yes, graphs!) after the 30th November 1943 turn.
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

Post by fochinell »

A whole series of turns where attrition in the ETO is fatally undercut by the weather.

20th November 1943. A: 32/668 (24 aa), X: 16/313 (4 gd).

MTO: Tactical strikes, mostly on coastal AF's. Nothing too exciting going on. Another LGO raid by the 12th AF Bostons. I think I've had more than a dozen of these by now.

ETO: Bad weather over the Channel. [:@]

21st November. A: 37/600 (14 aa), X: 2/435 (0 gd).

MTO: A wide range of fighter sweeps achieve little except for meeting OKL's demands for ALUM from smelting down wrecked P-38's (12 H and 10 L lost). [:@]

ETO: Weather again. [>:]

BC: 1 Group to Hamburg Elbe PORT, good raid with most of the bombloads on target.

22nd November. A: 50/1812 (20aa), X: 13/616 (12 gd).

MTO: Tactical raids and sweeps by the 15th, 12th and MAC. More P-38's lost (18 H, 5 L)

ETO: Tactical raids and a Typhoon strike following an 8th AF raid on Dusseldorf-Rhine PORT which attracts zero resistance - 0/262 f, 1/159 b, 0 e/a.

BC: 3 Group hit Wuppertal for a concentrated raid, but takes more than the usual minimal losses - 10/264 b. A couple of NJG units actually take off and score a couple of kills for once. 8 Group send two Mossie forces to try some Oboe bombing on the two Emden ports. To my suprise, most of the bombloads hit the target area, but I doubt any serious damage was done.

23rd November. A: 27/911 (18 aa), X: 11/353 (1 gd).

MTO: Didn't take any notes for this one, so presumably nothing exciting going on. I should check the save game, as the sortie count is high enough for a typical 15/12/MAC tactical day.

ETO: Tactical and sweeps - the 358th FG's P-47D's catch a few RTB's at Creil AF.

BC: 4 Group go to Willhelmshaven and report all their bombloads within the city area. The NJG are in hiding as usual.

24th November. A: 50/1473 (29 aa), X: 46/435 (19 gd).

MTO: A deeper than usual penetration by the 15th AF heads west after going past Venice all the way to Turin RR, with the supporting 12th AF P-38H sweeps and B-26B raid (2/96 f 3/64b 17 e/a) taking most of the action. OKL attempt to concentrate their interceptors near Metato AF on the return leg to attack the Liberators en route home when the escorts depart (good ol' bingo fuel bug), but to my suprise it doesn't pay off - a few go down, but Werner claims the fighters break off early due to fuel and fatigue rather than simple cowardice.

ETO: A token sweep by the 9th AF Thunderbolts again. I reckon this catches 4 Bf 110 G-4 at Florennes AF, so it was better than nothing. Damn weather. [:@]

BC grounded by weather, so 205 Group go to Vienna. Bombing not particularly good, hitting one FAC and a suburb as well as the city area, but only one squadron hit the fields, so not too bad overall I suppose.
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