More detailed question about oilers and support ships

[niceguy2005]

I'm at the point in my game where the USN is going on the offensive and will be conducting extended operations at sea...thus I will really start using replenishment TFs.

First question: how many oilers should I put in a TF to support say 4 CV TFs? What about the replenishment CVs?

Also, I can see a couple ways to use replenishment TFs. I could put them at sea with their own escorts, or have them standing by at a nearby small port, where maybe I can provide some fighter cover. Any thoughts on the best way to use them? What is there historical usage?

[Yamato hugger]

I operate my oilers in pairs. I keep the 9000 tonners near the front, and the 20,500 tonners further back.

[saj42]

I've no idea how they did it IRL.

For myself I put the 18900 and 20500 capacity AOs in groups of 4 or 6 with their own escort. If I'm supporting bombardment TFs then an AE or 2 will be included and this will stage at a dot base or island. If I have enough CVEs then I'll put 1 in for CAP and ASW coverage.

The 9000/9900 capacity AOs I use in backwater areas (Aleutians/Indian Ocean). And 1 in my CVE Long Island Hunter-Killer ASW TG[:D]

As for CVE(R)s, I've not had my ACTFs in extended combat operations long enough to need them (air cbt model is so bloody its all over in 1 day - sometimes 2). But then I would use them in a separate Replen TF (with real CVEs and escorts) set to follow the AO replen TF.

It works against AI - how I will fair in PBEM is uncertain.....

[niceguy2005]

Thanks guys...not too long from now I will be supporting many TFs in my march across the pacific. My main concern is not brining enough AOs. I know that an AO can only refuel so much per turn. My problem is I just have no idea how much I'm going to need at this point. I'm thinking of creating a couple of groups. One set of AO/CVE (with replacement groups) will follow around the TFs.

A second TF with AO/AE/AD will find some nice out of the way minor port to provide resupply of ammo.

Anyone recall of the top of thier heads what size port is needed for an AD to reload torps on a derstoyer? Is it 6?

[saj42]

according to the manual:
"..... or in a hexwith an AD ship and a base with sufficient supplies......."

I've no idea if the supply on a AE will count towards this or whether you will need an AK to unload supplies at your dot base

[Feinder]

It also kinda depends on how you're operating your CVs.  If you run them in a big pack, similar to mega-KB (TF-58), you're going to need a LOT of fuel (think 90k+).  But if you run separate TFs for 3x York, 2x Lex, RN-CVs + Wasp (I sometimes use this trio of groups), each group will have smaller fuel needs about 40k).

I also group my replen TFs by speed (some of the AOs can make 17kts, so I keep them separate from the ones that only make 11kts).

As to "where" you keep your AOs, within friendly LBA range is probably sufficient, but that also depends on the area of the map that you're operating in, and how feisty KB is (you should certainly keep them far enough back that KB or LBA won't zoom past you and whack your AOs).  Also, when I went after Toyohara, my AOs took a completely separate route, in case they wre discovered, it wouldn't tip the location of my CVs.

And since you're talking about counter-offensives with the Allies, don't forget to keep (4x ARs + AD) in tow as well (moving from nearest Port-3 to Port-3), so that when you -do- get bloodied, your guys will have maximum help right behind them.

-F-


PS - Each ship ~250 ops points (for both the AO, and the receiving ship), depending on how much it needs. So each AO can bring about 4 capital ships up to ~90% fuel (from about ~40%). You really only need to keep your capital ships topped off, because your escorts will auto-refuel off the parent capital ships in the TF anway.

And when running some big TFs, be mindful of ships with lower max fuel ratings (like the RDN CLS with only 3500). You'll be refueling them all the time, slowing you down.

-F-

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

It also kinda depends on how you're operating your CVs.  If you run them in a big pack, similar to mega-KB (TF-58), you're going to need a LOT of fuel (think 90k+).  But if you run separate TFs for 3x York, 2x Lex, RN-CVs + Wasp (I sometimes use this trio of groups), each group will have smaller fuel needs about 40k).

I also group my replen TFs by speed (some of the AOs can make 17kts, so I keep them separate from the ones that only make 11kts).

As to "where" you keep your AOs, within friendly LBA range is probably sufficient, but that also depends on the area of the map that you're operating in, and how feisty KB is (you should certainly keep them far enough back that KB or LBA won't zoom past you and whack your AOs).  Also, when I went after Toyohara, my AOs took a completely separate route, in case they wre discovered, it wouldn't tip the location of my CVs.

And since you're talking about counter-offensives with the Allies, don't forget to keep (4x ARs + AD) in tow as well (moving from nearest Port-3 to Port-3), so that when you -do- get bloodied, your guys will have maximum help right behind them.

-F-

Alas, I did not convert enough AKs to ARs early in the game. I'm finding myself very short handed at the moment. Hopefully that situation will be altered in 180 days.

I don't even have enough ARs to send to all my major repair ports. Its amazing, I'm in March 43 and I still feel like I'm short of everything...except Infantry.

[Feinder]

PS - Each ship ~250 ops points (for both the AO, and the receiving ship), depending on how much it needs. So each TURN, each AO can bring about 4 capital ships up to ~90% fuel (from about ~40%). You really only need to keep your capital ships topped off, because your escorts will auto-refuel off the parent capital ships in the TF anway.

And when running some big TFs, be mindful of ships with lower max fuel ratings (like the RDN CLS with only 3500). You'll be refueling them all the time, slowing you down.

-F-

[whippleofd]

The only thing I can think to add is:

When refueling ships, no matter how many op points or how much fuel is available they will NOT completely "top-off" their tanks. Don't know why but I've experimented with this extensively. Seems they only take fuel to get them to the approximately 90% of total capacity as Feinder mentioned. This only applies to Allies with CHS, as I haven't tested it otherwise.

Whipple

[herwin]

In reality, an American CVTF (3CV, 1 CVL, etc.) in 1944-45 would drink an AO dry every 8 days.

[ny59giants]

Alas, I did not convert enough AKs to ARs early in the game. I'm finding myself very short handed at the moment. Hopefully that situation will be altered in 180 days.

As a rule of thumb, I use all the American AK's whose name starts with "Steel" as converts to AR's. In both stock and CHS, there are at least 5 or 6 of them in San Fran at start. First thing I do is convert them on day 1. This will give you 14 in stock and similar numbers in CHS. [;)]

A big bonus of CHS is the various repair ships the Dutch supply. They are busy in Melbourne and Sydney right now. [:D]

[BrucePowers]

I have done replenishment TFs to support BB TFs and small CV TFs (I don't have a lot of CVs yet). All I can say is this. They suck the fuel like a vampire bat in a feeding frenzy. I would use the 20,500 tonners in groups of 2 to 4 (with escorts).
I would have at least 2 TF where I could cycle one back to port for reloading.