Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied

[George Patton]

April 14th, 1942

SW Pac

Nothing happened today. The Kido Butai simply fled. Now the enemy ships are north of Luganville, heading unknown. I will send my carriers towards this point. Maybe Chuck is only bluffing and the next turn will come south again.
If the japanese will run away, I will transfer my carriers in Suva. Maybe is more safely than Noumea.

[Feinder]

Congrats Patton,
 
That's one of those times when you don't ask why he did what he did, but just count your blessings!  Maybe it was fuel that made turn back.  Maybe it’s bait, I dunno.
 
I consider a "safe" port anything that is behind enough patrols to reasonably spot KB or bombardment TF before they’re on top of you (so you have time to bugger out if necessary).
 
KB can “sprint” 5/5 with Kaga, or 6/6 without.
CA bombardment TFs can sprint 6/6.
 
KB’s threat zone is about 15 – 25 hexes, depending on 1 or 2 day turns.
 
Figure in 1 day, KB can “sprint” (full speed) 12 hexes + 5 for strike range.  For two day turns, sprint range is 24 + 5 = 27!  Granted, they’re not likely to actually move 24 hexes (if anything they’d have to refuel the escorts), but you’re still looking at about 20 hexes of movement + 5 for strike range.
 
If you can’t spot him 15 – 25 hexes out, and/or don’t have plenty of fighters at your base to at least make it “painful” for him, your base isn’t “safe”.
 
Some examples : Columbo/Tricom isn’t safe.  You might be able to put enough planes over-head to make him pay for hitting the port, but it’s not “safe”.  I wouldn’t stash a CV there.
 
If he doesn’t own Southern Solomons, Noumea is “mostly” safe.  If he own’s Lunga, Noumea is –not- safe.  You can stop for a gas and ammo, but if you’re going to disband, use Aukland.
 
If you’ve got a patrol at Nuku or one of those atolls (Phoenix Islands?), Suva is probably ok.  But if you don’t, he can zip past those atolls to NW of Suva, and pummel you.  But again, Suva and Nandi (build her up as well) together can put up formidable fighter/strike package that KB may be loathe to come after you.  However, you might also consider Pago-Pago.  It’s another days travel to the south, and Suva would certainly intercept KB before it got to you.  An extra day of steam for you is nothing, it just means launching your operation a day earlier (just plan for it).
 
It kinda depends on the map, but I’m even generally not fond of Brisbane as “safe”.  If you don’t have patrols on Norfolk, he can scoot in and bomb you (he might still do that anyway).  If you want to disband, think Sydney (it’s also got a yard, so it’ll burn off that routine sys dmg as well).
 
It’s been my experience (the hard way mind you), that “conservative” is –generally- better as Allies.  Time is on your side after all.  It’s also been my experience (and observation in many AARs) that CV vs. CV battles tend to be very one-sided (no matter if the forces seem roughly equal).  It’s all about the total number of bombers you can put over target, and the number of flight decks you have to field (to spread out the attacks).  The guy with roughly the same number of bombers, but more flight decks, is going to win.  The guy with same number of flight decks, but more bombers is going to win.  The guy with more flight decks and more bombers is certainly going to win.
 
But part of it, is just getting to know your opponent.  In April 42, you’re just now getting a perspective on your opponent.  Does he keep KB together?  Does he run mini-KB and KB separate, or does he run mega-KB?  Does he have a “tell” – can you “see the invasion coming” because he recons/bombs for two weeks before hand?  Or does he just charge in with over-whelming force?
 
A question you should ask yourself is, “If my CVs are sunk, can I hold the line with LBA?  Or will a lost CV battle open the door to India, Oz, or Pearl?” 
 
-F-
 

[Mistmatz]

Great summary Feinder.

Patton, as it is only April '42 I'd not actively look for a CV vs CV battle as allies. Just be grateful your carriers survived and try to make the best of the knowledge where KB at the moment is or even more important, where it NOT is. [;)]

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: George Patton

But the question is. Why most of my carriers spent 1000 op points while they were in harbor? Because the a/c flew anyway you could answer. Ok, that's reasonably. But why 5 carriers spent 1000 points and 2 carriers didn't spend them at all? [&:][&:]

Probably because some of your carrier's AA guns fired during the port attack. AA fire burns a lot of ops points in my experience.

Feinder is correct, Noumea isn't a safe harbor in early 1942 - unless you use some float planes and drop some aviation support squads and supply on 1 or 2 of the atolls/islands to the north and station at least 1 Catalina squadron there. If Chuck tries to invade those 'advanced spotter bases', simply remove your AV squads with the float planes again, and drop them somewhere else. There are enough (dot) bases in the area. This method is much safer than placing an AVD at such outlying bases, since these are easily noticed and sunk by a competent Japanese player. And Chuck certainly is an competent player...

[George Patton]

Thanks guys for your suggestions.
In an other game as allied, in mid march '42 I encountered KB in the same place, with 6 CVs (4 US and 2 UK), 3 TFs of 2 CVs each, all operating in the same hex. I set CAP on 70 %.
Result: 2 japanese CVs sunk and only 1 british CV badly damaged. A great result.

I mean, if I achieved this miracle once, why I cannot try to achieve it again?

[George Patton]

April 15th, 1942

SW Pac

The KB definitely retreated. As I said yesterday, I’ll transfer now my carriers. My first choice was Suva but I will follow Feinder’s suggestion, and I will move the carriers to Pago-Pago.
A replenishment TF is loading fuel now in Papeete and will sail in one or two days, to be ready to support some operations.

[Feinder]

Quick note - I had my ports mixed up.  Depending if you want to swing east (toward Centpac) or west (towards Noumea), Tongapu (or whatever it's called), is the better port than Suva.  Pago Paco would be useful eyeing the east, while Tonga is useful eyeing west (and is "protected" by Suva).
 
-F-

[George Patton]

April 16th, 1942

SW Pac

Chuck is continuing recon Thrursday I. I suppose that he will invade that base in the next few days.
My carriers are now north of Suva, sailing in direction of Pagp-Pago.

Cina

The japs assaulted Yenan today. The reduced the fort from 8 to 7 but they lost 2’568 men, while I lost 957 soldiers.
Meanwhile, in Ichang, 72’000 chinese have been repulsed during an attempt to occupy the city, and more than 3’400 remained on the ground.

[George Patton]

April 17th, 1942

SW Pac

As I expected, japs begun to land on Thursday I.

Burma

Jap aviation is becoming more and more aggressive in the area of Indian Ocean. Today some Lilys hit with 3 bombs each, two AK with the 59. UK LAA Regiment on board directed to Akyab.

[George Patton]

April 18th, 1942

Burma

One of the two Aks directed to Akyab and damaged yesterday, has been sunk today by jap sub. Men of the 59. BR LAA Rgt have been rescued by the other AK, also in bad conditions.

Australia

Thursday I. garrison surrendered to the enemy. The japs are now really on the door step of the Australia.


South Pac

Japs begun to land in Nanumea, Nukufetau and Funafuti in the Ellice Islands. The islands are undefended and fell immediately.

But it was an exciting turn. I decided to follow the advice of Feinder and I sent my carriers to Pago-Pago. My 7 flattops were just north of Suva when recon planes spotted enemy carriers west of the Ellice Islands. Also enemy recon spotted my carriers.
My carriers reacted to the enemy, despite the “zero” set on the reaction range and moved north, just under a beautiful cloud. So no alpha attack for me, but no alpha attack for the japanese too.

Now we have the following situation. I’m a bit undecided. The great carrier clash in history (until april 1942) will probably become a reality tomorrow. But I could flee and run away.

[veji1]

go for it, many ships won't make it to kwaj or Truk in time while you have Suva right there... 

[George Patton]

ORIGINAL: veji1

go for it, many ships won't make it to kwaj or Truk in time while you have Suva right there...

Yes, I think that I'll do it. But I don't know how many hexes ordering to move north to save as much point as possible.

[George Patton]

Ok. I have decided to move one hex south of Funafuti.
If one of my carriers will sunk, the air group will transfer to another CV, to Suva or Pago-Pago. Three options should be fine.

Wish me luck. I need a lot.[&o][&o]

[Feinder]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Again, the mega-CV battles tend to be fairly bloody affairs, and either
a.  You will blunt Japan here and now.
b.  (if you lose) Japan will "gain" another year of agression.
c.  A draw is strongly in your favor (altho I rarely see equal damages).
d. If he retreats, you've at least shown him you're going to stand up to him.

Every time a Val dives on your RN CVs, you'll be glad that you brought them along, and cheeras the 250kg ping-pong balls bounce off their flight decks (and NOT thru your USN CVs).

Good luck.

-F-

[Mistmatz]

Hmmm... I wonder if one of his TF's is a surface combat TF. With an aggressive commander such a TF could react to your CV's and steal them operational points, or worse...

Anyway, this is gonna be an exiting turn. Keep the reports coming, and best of luck.

[George Patton]

April 19th, 1942

Burma

The AK with 59. BR LAA Rgt aboard, badly damaged, but survived after two air attacks, reached Akyab harbor. Unfortunately an enemy sub was there to wait for her and sunk her with 2 torpedoes.

South Pac

Early in the morning the recon of both parts, spotted the opposing force. The KB were NE of Funafuti. My carriers reacted and closed of 1 hex and the same have done the enemy CV.

My planes attacked first.
First wave, composed by 34 SBD, 15 TBD and (only!) 6 F4F, arrived over KB. 92 Zeros were on CAP. Only 8 SBD and 6 TBD managed to pass through the screen. 1 1000 lbs-bomb hit Kongo: boink!
Another 1000 lbs-bomb hit CV Soryu and exploded beneath the deck.
Ah, by the way...No Zero shot down...

The second attack was more dramatic. 84 SBD, 30 TBD, 35 Albacore, escorted by a total of 30 fighters, arrived over KB, few minutes later the first wave. The same 92 Zeros were on CAP.
23 allied fighters have been shot down, in exchange of only 3 Zeros. Also 15 SBD, 6 TBD and 10 Albacore ended their flight in the water, but the rest of my armada attacked the Kido Butai.
CV Shokaku received 11 bombs, while CV Zuikaku received 9 bombs and 1 torpedo.

The third were were composed by 4 F4F (!), 34 SBD and 15 TBD. Again, 89 Zero were on CAP. I suppose that japanese pilots were tired, because only 1 SBD, 3 TBD and 1 F4F have been shot down, while 2 Zero have been shot down.
CV Shokaku received 4 more bombs, CV Zuikaku 2 bombs, while CA Aoba and Kinugasa have been hit by 1 bomb each.

There was time also for the fourth wave, composed by 15 SBD (1 shot down) and 17 TBD (5 lost), (no Zero shot down). CV Zuikaku and CV Shokaku received 2 more bombs each.

It’s obvious that Chuck divided KB in at least 2 TFs. This decision saved the death star.

Then came the japanese attack. The first (small) wave, 23 Val and 6 Zero, was intercepted by 83 fighters. 15 Val and 6 Zero shot down and the others Val turned back. No losses for the allied.

The second wave, composed by 22 Val, 25 Kate and 9 Zero, has been intercepted by the same 83 fighters. Only 1 F2F and 1 F4F lost, while my pilots shot down 6 Zero, 12 Val and 14 Kate have been shot down, and the survivors, again, turned back.

The third massive wave, composed by 61 Val, 78 Kate and 37 Zero, easily escaped from my 81 fighters on CAP.
CV Hornet took 2 torpedoes and 5 small bombs, CV Enterprise 2 torpedoes, 3 – 250kg – bombs and 2 small bombs, CV Lexington 5 torps, 1 -250 kg bombs and 2 small bombs, CA Chicago 2 torps and DD Lamson 4 bombs and 1 torp.
I lost 15 fighters, while japs lost 10 Zeros, 6 Vals and 9 Kates.

20 Kate and 6 Zero formed the fourth wave. 65 fighters were on CAP, but were unable to stop them.
3 Kate and 6 of my fighters shot down. CV Enterprise took 2 more torps.

Fifth wave attacked the same TF (again!). 21 Kate, 17 Val and 13 Zero fought against 58 fighters, but managed 1 torpedo on Lexington and 3 bombs and 1 torpedo on Hornet. 2 Kate and 13 allied fighters lost.

All this happened in the morning!!

In the afternoon british TF closed one more hex and launched one small air attack. I lost 4 Albacores during an attempt to attack CV Akagi, without results.
9 SBD and 2 TBD tried the same, and a SBD scored 1 1000 lbs – bomb on Akagi. 2 SBD and 1 TBD lost.

Then, 18 Zero and 16 Kate, from another carrier TF, probably composed by light carriers due to the number of planes, attacked the british TF. Prince of Wales and Repulse received 1 torpedo each. Only 1 Kate shot down.

44 Val, 21 Kate and 29 Zero attacked again. Only 5 british fighters were on CAP. The closing of one hex towards the KB, leaved the british ships without US air cover. 3 Val and 1 Kate for the japs and 2 fighters for the british shot down.
CV Formidable resulted hit by 10 bombs and 4 torps, CV Indomitable by 4 bombs and 2 torps, BB Prince of Wales by 2 bombs and CA Canberra by 1 bomb.

Before dusk, Lexington and Enterprise sunk. No reports of enemy sinking, but I suppose that Zuikaku and Shokaku are in a very bad conditions and they are between the Ellice and Suva. A long way home.

During this terrible day, this are the air losses.

89 Kate
60 Val
39 Zero

188 a/c


126 SBD
61 TBD
19 Albacore
5 Sea Hurricane
21 Fulmar
14 F2A
19 F4F-3
24 F4F-4

The damages for my ships are the following:

CV Formidable 50/69/38
CV Indomitable 35/34/42
BB Prince of Wales 35/6/14
BC Repulse 25/14/10

CV Hornet 58/89/49
DD Lamson 64/19/25

[George Patton]

My losse have been very high, in the air too.

Now what can I do. Sprint nord and finish off the two damaged carriers or retire, safe with what I still have, in my base in Suva?

[George Patton]

Ouch.
I checked my air groups, and I have now decided that is time to retire.
I have 152 aircrafts out of 372, but only 80 operationals, the other damaged. [X(][8|]

[George Patton]

I have decided to regroup again all the british ships in one TF (Formidable was in a slower and sep TF) and send them to Suva. They will sail very slow, but together they will reach the destination.
Instead Hornet will be with only one DD. I really don't know if she will reach Suva. The damages are very high.[:(]

[Feinder]

CV Hornet 58/89/49
 
Very, very, UN-likely that she will make it.
 
-F-