Modding Squadrons and Aircraft Questions

[Hoplosternum]

I hope some or all of you can help me with these, a lot of questions regarding modding of planes and squadrons. I am sure many of these will already have come up before but hopefully most are easy to those of you who already mod scenarios.

I am not going to want to change the art files at all - I hope! So these are just about new planes, adjusting plane capabilities and individual squadrons.

1) Can a Fighter Bomber be given a Torpedo and then use it (like a level bomber will), or will it simply swoop/dive bomb using the default 500lb/250KG bombs?

2) By adjusting the load out of an individual squadron. i.e. changing it from the standard for that aircraft in the Air Group window. Will that work? i.e. could I give Torpedoes to one Maurauder squadron or is it all of them get it or none (in which case I need to use a new slot)? If this does work I assume the specialized weaponry is lost once the squadron upgrades? But can the unit still receive replacements and if so does it keep its unique weapons load?

3) Do drop tanks work to extend range? And if so can I use them to extend the range of individual squadrons if (2) works? If they do work then does anyone know how they work. i.e what sort of Gallon > Endurance or Gallon > Range etc. effect they have?

4) If I make a series of say the B-25Cs, all with different ranges and bomb loads will they all be able to use the same art file? i.e. can I
point multiple aircraft to the same art? (and the same for ships, can I have two or more classes of ship using the same art?)

5) I believe certain missions use a standard load out rather than the one specified on the aircraft. i.e. Airfield attack always uses the
standard 500lb/250KG bombs, never Torpedos I think? Does the amount of bombs dropped depend on the Max Load or the standard load carried by the aircraft for those that list bombs? For instance if I make a B-17 which has a longer range but only carries 2*500lb bombs will the programme ignore the and just drop max bomb load / 500 500lbers?

6) Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?

7) Can I add some replacements for the Japanese (i.e. planes that do not cost production/HI/Factories etc.)? The allies seem to be able to have planes with both replacements and factory builds. Will this also work for the Japanese?

8) How does the pre defined upgrade option being off work for plane upgrade paths? What makes a plane appear on the list or not? For example UK fighters can be either on the Spitfire path or the Kittyhawk path. But they cannot swap between the two. Why not and how could I make them? Would putting them all in the same upgrade line (e.g. Hurricane> Kittyhawk I> Spitfire V> Kittyhawk III> Spitfire VIII etc. work? Is that the only way? What would happen to the Thunderbolts? Would they still be available. Does nationality affect this? i.e. how could I make Spitfires be open to Australian or Dutch squadrons and would this lock out the traditional Kittyhawk path? The same with the US planes. How can I make this open to the Australian squadrons, or even just fit the Mustang B in to it? What about the Fighter bomber / Fighter split? I know even with predefined off I can always send a particular squadron anywhere for its first upgrade. But what makes a general rule?

9) Do aircraft Radars work and if so what effect do they have? Do they spot ships, subs, or effect bombing or air combat (bouncing or being bounced)?

All information very much appreciated. Thanks!

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum

I hope some or all of you can help me with these, a lot of questions regarding modding of planes and squadrons. I am sure many of these will already have come up before but hopefully most are easy to those of you who already mod scenarios.

I am not going to want to change the art files at all - I hope! So these are just about new planes, adjusting plane capabilities and individual squadrons.

1) Can a Fighter Bomber be given a Torpedo and then use it (like a level bomber will), or will it simply swoop/dive bomb using the default 500lb/250KG bombs?

Don't know the answer to this one. I don't think it's possible though.

2) By adjusting the load out of an individual squadron. i.e. changing it from the standard for that aircraft in the Air Group window. Will that work? i.e. could I give Torpedoes to one Maurauder squadron or is it all of them get it or none (in which case I need to use a new slot)? If this does work I assume the specialized weaponry is lost once the squadron upgrades? But can the unit still receive replacements and if so does it keep its unique weapons load?

You can change the load out by individual air unit. It does not require a new aircraft type. Every air unit uses an air unit slot of course, but that’s true whether you change the load out or not. When the unit upgrades, it loses it’s special weapons.

3) Do drop tanks work to extend range? And if so can I use them to extend the range of individual squadrons if (2) works? If they do work then does anyone know how they work. i.e what sort of Gallon > Endurance or Gallon > Range etc. effect they have?

Drop tanks do extend range. Endurance is measured in minutes. Each gallon of fuel adds 1 minute of endurance. According to El Cid Again, the aircraft will carry the extra tanks if the mission requires them to fly further than they can without tanks. They will trade payload for tanks up to the maximum load listed in the database.

I have experimented some with drop tanks and it takes some experimentation to get the range right.

I recommend downloading and installed RHS in a separate folder (you can copy a vanilla installation of WitP to a new folder, then install RHS in the new folder and it works fine. I have vanilla WitP, CHS, and an older version of RHS installed on my system.

RHS was the first mod to work with drop tanks. They were always in the database, but nobody had ever used them. Even if you don’t use the same values, it’s a good starting point for tanks. El Cid had to make some compromises to get around limitations in the game engine. He’s talked about them in depth here on the forum.

4) If I make a series of say the B-25Cs, all with different ranges and bomb loads will they all be able to use the same art file? i.e. can I
point multiple aircraft to the same art? (and the same for ships, can I have two or more classes of ship using the same art?)

The way the database works is that there is a table for aircraft type and then another for aircraft units. Aircraft types defined in the types table are assigned to the units. All aircraft of a type will share the same art.

Different aircraft from the aircraft type table can share art too. This is handy because the number of available slots for art is 4 less than the available slots for aircraft. The 4 shy are in the Allied section of the table. When I did my mod, I combined the photo recon and fighter art work (for example the P-38F and F-4 use the same art now in my mod) and freed up some slots for new aircraft.

5) I believe certain missions use a standard load out rather than the one specified on the aircraft. i.e. Airfield attack always uses the standard 500lb/250KG bombs, never Torpedos I think? Does the amount of bombs dropped depend on the Max Load or the standard load carried by the aircraft for those that list bombs? For instance if I make a B-17 which has a longer range but only carries 2*500lb bombs will the programme ignore the and just drop max bomb load / 500 500lbers?

As I understand it, the load out listed in the database is for naval attack. For land attack, the plane is loaded with GP bombs (in most cases 500 lb GP or 250 kg GP) up to the maximum load listed in the database. For extended range missions, the load is reduced. The load is reduced for standard range missions with no possibility of extended range when a plane is operating at an airfield that is too small for it. There is a formula in the manual to calculate the airfield size for a given aircraft type. You use the maximum load listed in the database in the calculation.

6) Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?

The program does adjust the type of bombs for naval attack based on the skill of the crew, time period in the game, and some other factors. There are die rolls for each check. Level bombers can end up carrying larger bombs than listed in the database under some conditions. I believe for port attack it will always use the ground target load, which is usually 500 lb GP bombs. It makes it virtually impossible to do serious damage to a battleship in port from aircraft.

The game isn’t brilliant about selecting the nest armament for the mission. In real life, torpedoes were only carried against targets deemed valuable enough for the expenditure, ie larger warships and large merchant ships. And not always true for the larger merchant ships. 1000 lb AP or larger would also be dropped if the mission was against battleships in port. The Tirpitz was eventually sunk with a giant block buster bomb dropped from a Lancaster.

The game doesn’t tend to take into account the specific types of ships being attacked, so it will drop torpedoes on PT boats and 500 lb GP bombs on battleships in port.

7) Can I add some replacements for the Japanese (i.e. planes that do not cost production/HI/Factories etc.)? The allies seem to be able to have planes with both replacements and factory builds. Will this also work for the Japanese?

Good question. I don’t think so.

8) How does the pre defined upgrade option being off work for plane upgrade paths? What makes a plane appear on the list or not? For example UK fighters can be either on the Spitfire path or the Kittyhawk path. But they cannot swap between the two. Why not and how could I make them? Would putting them all in the same upgrade line (e.g. Hurricane> Kittyhawk I> Spitfire V> Kittyhawk III> Spitfire VIII etc. work? Is that the only way? What would happen to the Thunderbolts? Would they still be available. Does nationality affect this? i.e. how could I make Spitfires be open to Australian or Dutch squadrons and would this lock out the traditional Kittyhawk path? The same with the US planes. How can I make this open to the Australian squadrons, or even just fit the Mustang B in to it? What about the Fighter bomber / Fighter split? I know even with predefined off I can always send a particular squadron anywhere for its first upgrade. But what makes a general rule?

You can specify plane upgrades two ways. In the plane table, you define the standard upgrade for that plane. In the unit table, you can either leave the upgrade path as is, or you can specify a special upgrade path for a given unit. In stock, two Betty units are defined to upgrade to the G5N Liz, but standard upgrade is defined to upgrade to newer versions of the Betty. If you are playing with Player Defined Upgrades (PDU) on, you can upgrade all Bettys to Liz’s if you want after one of the original units upgrades.

Each nationality has it’s own upgrade path. So even though Australians, British, and Dutch get Spitfires, the British get Hurricanes, and neither the Australians or the Dutch do. The Australians and British get Kittyhawk Is and the Dutch don’t. (Though the Dutch should get Kittyhawk Is. The NEI government had quite a few on order when the DEI fell. If they had held out for a few more weeks, they would have been delivered. The order was diverted to Australia.)

9) Do aircraft Radars work and if so what effect do they have? Do they spot ships, subs, or effect bombing or air combat (bouncing or being bounced)?

As far as I can tell, air to surface radar is not modeled in the game. The only air radar that works is air to air and it’s used by night fighters.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum

I hope some or all of you can help me with these, a lot of questions regarding modding of planes and squadrons. I am sure many of these will already have come up before but hopefully most are easy to those of you who already mod scenarios.

I am not going to want to change the art files at all - I hope! So these are just about new planes, adjusting plane capabilities and individual squadrons.

1) Can a Fighter Bomber be given a Torpedo and then use it (like a level bomber will), or will it simply swoop/dive bomb using the default 500lb/250KG bombs?

REPLY: No. Torpedoes are a special code routine - and only a torpedo bomber or a level bomber may involk it. CHS put torpedoes on Japanese flying boats - but they cannot use them.

2) By adjusting the load out of an individual squadron. i.e. changing it from the standard for that aircraft in the Air Group window. Will that work? i.e. could I give Torpedoes to one Maurauder squadron or is it all of them get it or none (in which case I need to use a new slot)? If this does work I assume the specialized weaponry is lost once the squadron upgrades? But can the unit still receive replacements and if so does it keep its unique weapons load?

REPLY: It works - and it is an RHS convention to do this. But the loadout will not show up anywhere. RHS uses the convention of telling players with codes in the unit name. But IF the unit upgrades - it will revert to the standard load - even if it upgrades back to the same type. And drop tanks will NOT work UNLESS they are in the plane loadout - the unit loadout is ignored re drop tanks.

3) Do drop tanks work to extend range? And if so can I use them to extend the range of individual squadrons if (2) works? If they do work then does anyone know how they work. i.e what sort of Gallon > Endurance or Gallon > Range etc. effect they have?

REPLY: Yes. But it is very hard to get the ranges right. In fact, they ONLY work at extended range - at the expense of external bombs. Some of us made test beds to help calculate ranges.

4) If I make a series of say the B-25Cs, all with different ranges and bomb loads will they all be able to use the same art file? i.e. can I
point multiple aircraft to the same art? (and the same for ships, can I have two or more classes of ship using the same art?)

REPLY: IF you use ONE B-25C slot - and vary the load at the unit level - they all have the same art. If you use several B-25C slots - you can have any art you want to point at - same or different.

5) I believe certain missions use a standard load out rather than the one specified on the aircraft. i.e. Airfield attack always uses the
standard 500lb/250KG bombs, never Torpedos I think? Does the amount of bombs dropped depend on the Max Load or the standard load carried by the aircraft for those that list bombs? For instance if I make a B-17 which has a longer range but only carries 2*500lb bombs will the programme ignore the and just drop max bomb load / 500 500lbers?

REPLY: You are correct. Torpedo attacks - if tests are passed - always use one torpedo. Mine attacks and some other attacks have special routines - and the loadout is then ignored. ASW may be like that.

6) Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?


REPLY: There is no documentation - not even secret documentation. It is hard to read the code - so trying to do that may or may not produce the answer - even if you see it.

7) Can I add some replacements for the Japanese (i.e. planes that do not cost production/HI/Factories etc.)? The allies seem to be able to have planes with both replacements and factory builds. Will this also work for the Japanese?

REPLY: Never. The Japanese should only get planes from factories that need HI points produced on the map. And they should be subject to bombardment, bombing, or ground attack. Free isn't fair and it is a violation of the WITP design intent.

8) How does the pre defined upgrade option being off work for plane upgrade paths? What makes a plane appear on the list or not? For example UK fighters can be either on the Spitfire path or the Kittyhawk path. But they cannot swap between the two. Why not and how could I make them? Would putting them all in the same upgrade line (e.g. Hurricane> Kittyhawk I> Spitfire V> Kittyhawk III> Spitfire VIII etc. work? Is that the only way? What would happen to the Thunderbolts? Would they still be available. Does nationality affect this? i.e. how could I make Spitfires be open to Australian or Dutch squadrons and would this lock out the traditional Kittyhawk path? The same with the US planes. How can I make this open to the Australian squadrons, or even just fit the Mustang B in to it? What about the Fighter bomber / Fighter split? I know even with predefined off I can always send a particular squadron anywhere for its first upgrade. But what makes a general rule?

REPLY: There is an official answer - and I am 100% certain it is false. Some things not understood by programmers also are in the algorithm(s). But MOSTLY the official answer is right: to make the list the plane must be the same type (e.g. fighter) and the same "nation" (meaning service - USN, USMC, USAAF, IJN, IJA).

9) Do aircraft Radars work and if so what effect do they have? Do they spot ships, subs, or effect bombing or air combat (bouncing or being bounced)?

REPLY: There is some doubt about this. But apparently AI radar helps night fighters. Maybe air radar helps planes find ships. And maybe nav radar helps them get home - there is no way to know for sure.

All information very much appreciated. Thanks!

[Dili]

Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?

 
I have read that Japanese planes when attack Harbours use the 800kg bomb. I am not sure if that is only for torpedo bombers or also incude Bettys and Nells.
 

In the plane table, you define the standard upgrade for that plane. In the unit table, you can either leave the upgrade path as is, or you can specify a special upgrade path for a given unit. In stock, two Betty units are defined to upgrade to the G5N Liz, but standard upgrade is defined to upgrade to newer versions of the Betty. If you are playing with Player Defined Upgrades (PDU) on, you can upgrade all Bettys to Liz’s if you want after one of the original units upgrades. 

 
I dont believe it's possible to define a special upgrade path in Unit table, at least i never found a way. You can define the next step(plane) but then you get the path of the plane you choose. If i am wrong i am very interested to know it.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?

I have read that Japanese planes when attack Harbours use the 800kg bomb. I am not sure if that is only for torpedo bombers or also incude Bettys and Nells.

REPLY: This is in the book! For once. A fraction (1 in 6?) of the torpedo bombers will carry 800 kg instead - die roll determined - so it might be none or it might be more than 1 in 6 in any given game attack.

In the plane table, you define the standard upgrade for that plane. In the unit table, you can either leave the upgrade path as is, or you can specify a special upgrade path for a given unit. In stock, two Betty units are defined to upgrade to the G5N Liz, but standard upgrade is defined to upgrade to newer versions of the Betty. If you are playing with Player Defined Upgrades (PDU) on, you can upgrade all Bettys to Liz’s if you want after one of the original units upgrades. 

I dont believe it's possible to define a special upgrade path in Unit table, at least i never found a way. You can define the next step(plane) but then you get the path of the plane you choose. If i am wrong i am very interested to know it.

Easy for humans - but not for AI. Humans get a list that shows

a) all planes of the same type and service
b) the specific plane the unit upgrade is set to - which can be a different service and/or type
c) some other thing - this is "illegal" but happens regularly - lists planes that should not be there -
even on the other side (but which you never get more than zero of )

AI will try to stick to the upgrade path - type for type. Humans don't have to.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum

1) Can a Fighter Bomber be given a Torpedo and then use it (like a level bomber will), or will it simply swoop/dive bomb using the default 500lb/250KG bombs?

It might though i havn't tested it specifically. With 2E bombers, you can assign a torpedo as the armament, but if you assign additional bomb devices to the plane it will attack with all weapons. It will not pick and choose. Torpedo armed bombers (1E or 2E) are designed to only carry the one torp device. hard coding will change the torp to a default bomb loadout if flying either at extended range or attacking a land target.

2) By adjusting the load out of an individual squadron. i.e. changing it from the standard for that aircraft in the Air Group window. Will that work? i.e. could I give Torpedoes to one Maurauder squadron or is it all of them get it or none (in which case I need to use a new slot)? If this does work I assume the specialized weaponry is lost once the squadron upgrades? But can the unit still receive replacements and if so does it keep its unique weapons load?

Yes. and yes. If you upgrade the squadron to a new device type plane, and then change it back, it will read from the default plane class stats. In other words you'll lose the specialized loadout for that particular squadron.

3) Do drop tanks work to extend range? And if so can I use them to extend the range of individual squadrons if (2) works? If they do work then does anyone know how they work. i.e what sort of Gallon > Endurance or Gallon > Range etc. effect they have?

Don't work with drop tanks but others who do can advise.

4) If I make a series of say the B-25Cs, all with different ranges and bomb loads will they all be able to use the same art file? i.e. can I
point multiple aircraft to the same art? (and the same for ships, can I have two or more classes of ship using the same art?)

Each plane device has a slot in the editor pointing to an art bit map. You can decide whether plane varients have different art. Usually different varients often use the same bitmap art.

5) I believe certain missions use a standard load out rather than the one specified on the aircraft. i.e. Airfield attack always uses the
standard 500lb/250KG bombs, never Torpedos I think? Does the amount of bombs dropped depend on the Max Load or the standard load carried by the aircraft for those that list bombs? For instance if I make a B-17 which has a longer range but only carries 2*500lb bombs will the programme ignore the and just drop max bomb load / 500 500lbers?

Maxload is only used to determine if an airfield at x size can support normal range loadouts or extended. If the bomber uses bomb devices it will attack with those bomb devices at normal range. If the default normal range loadout is a torp, then you invoke hard coded extended range or land target loadouts. For example the G4M is hard coded to use 2 x 250kg when attacking land targets and 1 x 250kg at extended range. Its editor listed armament is a single type 91 torp.

6) Does anyone know which missions are effected like this (5)? Is naval attack, for those that carry just bombs? So if I were to give a level bomber 1000lb AP bombs will it ignore this and drop 500lbers when on naval attack? What about Port attack which can also hit ships (and where 1000lber AP bombs would do more damage to certain types - BBs for example)?

Naval attack will see the plane device use whatever bomb device you give it. One word of caution, don't move the 500lb, 1000lb and 2000lb bomb devices as these slots are hard coded for alternate armaments for bombers that use the 500/1000lb GP bombs on naval attack. With the proper exp roll they can substitute on occasion for the larger bomb (exp, 1000lb in place of 500......2000lb in place of 1000lb bomb.)

7) Can I add some replacements for the Japanese (i.e. planes that do not cost production/HI/Factories etc.)? The allies seem to be able to have planes with both replacements and factory builds. Will this also work for the Japanese?

Not with production on i don't believe. You'd need to turn it off.

8) How does the pre defined upgrade option being off work for plane upgrade paths? What makes a plane appear on the list or not? For example UK fighters can be either on the Spitfire path or the Kittyhawk path. But they cannot swap between the two. Why not and how could I make them? Would putting them all in the same upgrade line (e.g. Hurricane> Kittyhawk I> Spitfire V> Kittyhawk III> Spitfire VIII etc. work? Is that the only way? What would happen to the Thunderbolts? Would they still be available. Does nationality affect this? i.e. how could I make Spitfires be open to Australian or Dutch squadrons and would this lock out the traditional Kittyhawk path? The same with the US planes. How can I make this open to the Australian squadrons, or even just fit the Mustang B in to it? What about the Fighter bomber / Fighter split? I know even with predefined off I can always send a particular squadron anywhere for its first upgrade. But what makes a general rule?

If PDU is off, you need to set the upgrade path in the editor. For example, Ki-43 I has Ki-43 II set as it's upgrade type. Ki 43-II has Ki -84 as it's upgrade type (or whatever plane you designate in the editor)

9) Do aircraft Radars work and if so what effect do they have? Do they spot ships, subs, or effect bombing or air combat (bouncing or being bounced)?

aircraft radars do not function currently.



[/quote]

[Hoplosternum]

Thank you all very much.

[Dili]

For example the G4M is hard coded to use 2 x 250kg when attacking land targets and 1 x 250kg at extended range. Its editor listed armament is a single type 91 torp.

 
Is that slot coded?

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Dili

For example the G4M is hard coded to use 2 x 250kg when attacking land targets and 1 x 250kg at extended range. Its editor listed armament is a single type 91 torp.

Is that slot coded?

Probably. Its been advised numerous times not to move established bomb devices such as 250kg, 500lb, 1000lb etc.

[Dili]

No i mean G4M, or do you wanted to mean all level bombers with Torpedos instead only G4M?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Dili

For example the G4M is hard coded to use 2 x 250kg when attacking land targets and 1 x 250kg at extended range. Its editor listed armament is a single type 91 torp.

Is that slot coded?

Maybe not. Looks like the thing that is coded is the the torpedo / ship attack routine. IF the aircraft is of an eligible type - level bomber or torpedo bomber

[Note here a Flying Boat with torpedoes can NEVER use them because it is the wrong type - never mind history]

AND IF the naval attack routine is involked

AND IF the aircraft has torpedoes in its loadout

AND IF the range is greater than normal range

THEN the bomber (G4 or otherwise) will drop bombs - apparently two 250 kg bombs if you never moved the bomb slot - IF you are also Japanese (and likely 500 pound bombs if you are Allied)


However, no matter where you put a G4 (or any other bomber) slot wise - you will always get this behavior. Further - if you specify a LAND target as stated above - then it is a matter of loadout. Apparently at extended range the number of bombs is a fraction (exactly half if that is possible) of normal range. But YOU control the bombs (or other devices). Further - not at the aircraft level - but at the air group level. Thus we can give the same type of plane more than one loadout. We can control if it drops large bombs or small, GP or AP or cluster, DC, missiles, torpedoes, etc. While one would think that DC are a function of ASW work - DC are really just a crude form of bomb - and in RHS we have a dual bomb/DC device (because they are the same weight and behave exactly the same). This is the NORMAL ASW weapon of the Japanese - and it is used when loaded in the air unit - on whatever target.

The only way to know this stuff - really - is to test - test - test. Even reading code may not make it entirely clear - as you might branch to a test but not return - in this old style pre modular code system. Thus, a torpedo attack routine - once involked - wholly causes you to ignore the loadout - and you never can get two torpedoes on board - never mind there really were. On the other hand, as noted above, if you do not qualify for torpedo attacks (never mind a Mavis or Emily or Allied Flying boat could do it), you will never consider the torpedo in the loadout - even if (as in CHS) they are there.

But some planes ARE slot coded - witness the altitude restrictions on two types - and we CAN use those slots for different planes if we want to (RHS does - since it has a different altitude rating system - we give the restricted slots to planes that can't perform - or basically cannot even get - up there anyway). Some devices are hard coded - the OKHA and the atomic bomb for example - and so is at least one air group. We do not know if there are others - and there might be. There appear even to be hard coded UNUSED slots - and only God knows why?

[Dili]

Thanks
 
[quoteBut some planes ARE slot coded - witness the altitude restrictions on two types][/quote]
 
Can you specify what are this slots -i know the zero slots and the carrier ones- I am building Italian/German planes and would not like a surprise.

[el cid again]

Probably 159 and 160 - P-400 and P-39 slots.

[Dili]

Okay thanks

[Hoplosternum]

Hi Dili,

Whats your mod going to be? And where, if anywhere, are you getting the art for the German and Italian air (and sea?) units? Can anyone use them? I would really like to borrow a few for a different mod idea I have [:)]

Also have you had any difficulties getting the art in the correct place? Specifically the black & white air outlines? What sort of art programme do you use?

Cheers.

[Dili]

WITM40-43. I am not into art yet, Mifune is working on it but only in map for now. I'll not have any problem sharing and while i didnt asked him i think Mifune will not have either when we have something.  
 
There are several apps you can use, i am into Photoshop V7, but you can use GIMP freeware or PaintshopPro.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Dili

No i mean G4M, or do you wanted to mean all level bombers with Torpedos instead only G4M?

No, the only plane devices hard coded are the A6M2 and 3 (for Zero bonus) and the P39/400 for Maneuver degradation if flying above 10,000 feet.

Remember that if you cannot arm a 2E or 1E with a torp and bombs in the editor at the same time without having them drop all of those weapons at normal range against naval targets.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Dili

No i mean G4M, or do you wanted to mean all level bombers with Torpedos instead only G4M?

No, the only plane devices hard coded are the A6M2 and 3 (for Zero bonus) and the P39/400 for Maneuver degradation if flying above 10,000 feet.

Remember that if you cannot arm a 2E or 1E with a torp and bombs in the editor at the same time without having them drop all of those weapons at normal range against naval targets.

I confirm the hard coded slots - they seem to be exactly as Nik says.

I do not confirm what he says about torpedoes - see my notes above. It appears the torpedo routine WHOLLY DISREGARDS the loadout you put on the aircraft - provided there is a torpedo of any sort in it AND it is a torpedo bomber or a level bomber - it jumps to a non-standard routine that does not use any bombs. Nor does it use the number of torpedoes in your loadout - each plane gets one and only one torpedo. Nemo detected this, I didn't want to accept it (flying boats carry two torpedoes and - in WITP never drop any of them), and I boxed it in with a large test set. Then I got confirmation from Matrix - the programmer said I had pretty closely worked out what code says.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not confirm what he says about torpedoes - see my notes above. It appears the torpedo routine WHOLLY DISREGARDS the loadout you put on the aircraft - provided there is a torpedo of any sort in it AND it is a torpedo bomber or a level bomber - it jumps to a non-standard routine that does not use any bombs. Nor does it use the number of torpedoes in your loadout - each plane gets one and only one bomb. Nemo detected this, I didn't want to accept it (flying boats carry two torpedoes and - in WITP never drop any of them), and I boxed it in with a large test set. Then I got confirmation from Matrix - the programmer said I had pretty closely worked out what code says.

nope. See the Bombur vs Nik Guadalcanal AAR. You'll notice that the G4M's are hitting with both bombs and torpedoes because in that scenario they have a multi torp/bomb loadout.

[el cid again]

Was it a single unit attack?

I must admit I did not test for this possibility - because a G4M could not carry any bombs if it had a torpedo in the bay - covering - using actually - the bomb mounting points. Nor can I think of any aircraft ever to use both at the same time.
But it may be revealing what is happening. This is very confusing to try to work out - but I guess I just assumed if it ignored the number of torpedoes it was ignoring the loadout. Maybe a torpedo attack is hard wired at one - but that does not prevent looking at other weapons?

We could test and figure that out - but to what end? What plane should be using bombs and torpedoes at the same time?