Line of Sight in woods?

[Eberbach]

Anyone here remember the board game battletech?

Remember how line of sight was so cut and dry in that game?

Something like a heavy woods was 2 points, and light woods was 1 point, and if 3 pts. were between you and another mech, LOS was blocked. The woods to be between the mechs, and if you were standing in ONE of the woods it didnt count

Does Steel Panthers work that way?

Can anyone give me, in laymans terms, exaclty how LOS and the woods work in this game. Sometimes I get shot at when I am sure that there is no way my unit could be seen

And i dont think the enemy was at higher elevation

just wondering

[Larry Holt]

I don't know the exact algorithm but in general woods and smoke reduce the LOS. So if visibility is long, the reduction caused by smoke and woods still allow LOS to extend a way (1 or 2 hexes) into them. If visibliity is low the reduction caused by the first smoke or woods hex is enough to terminate the LOS.

[Gary Tatro]

Like Larry I do not know the exact algorithm, but there are a few different instances that affect line of sight.

1st If there is a obstical between you and your enemy, like woods, a building, or a hill that will block line of sight then your opponent will not be able to see you. There are some exceptions to this rule.
A. Say that you are hidding behind a hill and menuvering your forces. If there is unit on the opposing side that is on higher ground there is a good chance he will see you. Say you are hiding behind a hill that is five feet high. Your opponent is sitting in overwatch on a hill that is 20 feet high. Now if you are right next to the hill he will probably not see you. But if you are say 2-3 hexes away from the hill he might see you and fire at you. The height of terrain can play a major factor in what can and cannot be seen. Watch tower constructions allow scouts and other units to see over trees.

2nd Visibility plays a major factor, here is where you can very much depend on who can see you. Say that you are playing a night senario and it is snowing. Visibility is 2 Hexes. This means that No-one can see you unless they are within two hexes. You will be able to do all the menuvering you want to without having to worry to much. Now if Visibility was 40 hexes at high noon on a sunny day. Now you need to use your terrain. Like Larry said smoke will ussually block line of sight from 1-25 (not sure exact #)visibility but over that it will ussually take two smokes to block line of sight.

3rd Unit Size, if your right click on each of your units individually you will see there is a size catagory in the description. This goes from 0-10 I believe(0 being the smallest 10 the largest). The smaller the unit the more difficult it is to see if it is holding its position or moving. (A good reason to take MG and ATG's that have smaller size classes)

4th Units can hide or take cover and also entrench. Units that are in cover get there size modified for being seen by l think 1 size class. So if you have a tank in cover that is a size class 3 it is now determined to have a size class of 2 for the opposing forces spotters. If a unit is Entrenched it has its size reduced by 3 (I believe), so taking the above example the tank would have a size class of 0. This can be devistating to the attacking forces.

5th Depending upon the hex you are in, the more likely you are to be seen by the enemy if you are hiding. Say you have spent a couple of rounds seeking cover and optained it. If you are in cover in say grassland, it is much easier to see you then if you are in cover in a stone building.

6th (SPOILER) There are ways to spot an enemy without being able to see them. What I mean by this is that if you know or suspect an enemy in a particular hex, a crop of trees for instance or you saw an enemy in that hex last turn, you can direct fire at the tree and if the game engine does not do anything you know there is no enemy there, but if a line comes up saying something like (you tank indirect fires at hex X,X at a range of 2 hexes) then you know there is an enemy there. Also many times if there is a enemy there it will fire back and show itself.
Also if you have the benifit of a airstrike and need to know where some enemy unit are you can plot a air strike and overfly the field. This will allow you to spot a # of the opposing forces units it will only show for that round (hint plot for .4 delay) so you need a good memory.

And finaly Yes I remember Battletech I liked the game but if you play for an extended period of time you come to find out that the spotting rules did not work that great either. Mechs and woods were considered to be two stories tall. Now say a mech is standing on a hill in light trees on a level three ledge and has one level three light woods in front of him and a whole bunch of level zero woods in front of him, can the mech on the other side of the vally standing in a level 1 heavy woods see him. The answer causes much debat trust me.

Hope this helped.

[Eberbach]

ouch i think i popped a vein in my head on that Battletech question, but yes the rest of the answers help alot, thanks

I need to go over conecealment some more in the manual me thinks.

But I was still confused, although I had not taken unit size into account

[antarctic]

Regarding LOS....in woods... anywhere..
just right click in the direction you want your unit to face, and all the light hexes are visible to the unit, and the dark ones are the ones which the unit can't see... ie no LOS.
I think that there is a random factor in LOS, as I've seen a tiger not seeing the US ranger squad right next it in a forest (hehe..), while another time, a unit saw through two hexes of trees.... but then, it could just be my memory playing tricks...

Antarctic