Russian Super Tank Corps bug?

[Tobsucht99]

I experienced a really strange situation/bug (?). I played the campaign starting 1940 as Axis. In the east the Axis captured Moskau, Gorki (May 1942), Lenigrad (June 1942) and Stalingrad (Oktober 1942) as well as the Oil in Maikop. In early 1943 there was only one Russian Tank Corps on the map, so far I could see it (FoW), and the Russian bear pretty tired.
In Septemper 1943 the Axis front was hit by a major counter offensive. So far so good. But then the Axis lost in two turns three of their very experienced, well supplied Panzer Corps (8/10 level) by direct attacks of a Russian Tank Corps (10/14, 14/14 level). The got one hit each (-10, -13, -14) and vanished right away. This wrecked the game. Any explanation?

[Tordenskiold]

I have faced overmighty Russian Tank Corps as well. It must be a bug because even though the Russian had great equipment in 1943 they did not outmanouver and crush the Germans, it was more like even odds. The experienced Germans with good commanders and communication had poorer material exept the rater few Panthers and Tigers. Panzer IV formed the bulk also this late in the war. The Russians on the other hand had among others the hard hitting and fast T34/85 but not the tactics and experience.

[SMK-at-work]

Presumably the Soviets put a lot of research into tanks in your game......that's one of hte htigns about wargaming....you can do things like that!![:D]

[Irish Guards]

I didnt realize this was actually Wargaming ... [:'(]
But ya all think so ... frightening ..
IG

[IainMcNeil]

It does sound extreme. Do you have a saved game with this in? Could you send us a save so we can try and replicate it. Mail to info@slitherine.co.uk.

[cptracks]

I've run into this a couple of times, usually in 1942 and on the higher Allied settings. Teaches great respect around Moscow. The AI seems capable of countering with a couple of supertanks which can kill a full strength panzer with one hit. It forced me to pay a lot of attention to upgrading panzers.

[Bigfish]

I had this situation too during my first game. You have to spent more PPs for research. In my game i was able to work this out because i had lots of units. Now I use this for my own - my armour is still good in research so often i have a chance of 40:1 fighting enemy tanks. About 25:1 is enough to kill a hole enemy tank corps with a strengh of ten with one shoot!

[Arkady]

Yes, it seems to me that AI spent a lot of research to Tank Destroyers, I counter this super tank corps with my infantry, lock them in place, soft them with  planes and infantry attacks, finish with my tanks few turns later.

[Stryder]

I noticed the same thing when I played the 43 scenario with a large Allied benefit.. the USSR tank corps wiped out all of my armor with ease (single attack across a river at an entrenched armored unit) and then I could do nothing to stop the hordes of units

[Tobsucht99]

Sorry, I dont have the game saved in this particulare turns. The last saved game is already with minus three Panzer Corps before I stopped playing. I had also the setting on advantage Allies.

The answers that are saying you have to spend even more in development are not satisfying, because even if the Axis had an lower standard of equipment (in my case they had level 8 from 10), it is impossible that a Panzer Corps is completly wiped out by a unexperienced but maybe better equiped Russian Tank Corps with out hurting them!

I dont have a problem loosing a game (even against the AI) but this is not reasonable and it`s very frustrating playing hours and hours with such a result.

[Bigfish]

The answers that are saying you have to spend even more in development are not satisfying, because even if the Axis had an lower standard of equipment (in my case they had level 8 from 10), it is impossible that a Panzer Corps is completly wiped out by a unexperienced but maybe better equiped Russian Tank Corps with out hurting them!

Sorry you are wrong. It is quit easy for a stupid man with a nuclear weapon to knock out a army of well trained fusiliers - and this is the situation in the game. The highest level of tanks is 22 and if your tanks are at 8 it is a turkey shot for the russians...

[IainMcNeil]

I think for game balance at the higher levels tanks of equal techs should do similar damage to equal tech tanks at the lower levels. It seems now that as tech improves they just do more and more damage. We may need to increase the survivrability of high tech tanks, and maybe increase the AT bonuses infantry & air can research to compensate.

[firepowerjohan]

Armour in no tech:
Ground Attack 6
Ground Defence 4
AT Bonus 0
Survivability 5

Armour in full tech:
Ground Attack 9
Ground Defence 6
AT Bonus 8
Survivability 13


So the AT Bonus of 8 will reduce the Survivability from 13-8=5 as in 1939 situation while the Ground Attack and Ground Defence has gone up by about 50% so yes the Armour units inflict more in 1945 than they do in 1939. This was on purpose and to avoid stalemate positions, but the effect is too large currently so need to be toned down.

An idea is to reduce the Tank Destroyer tech and its AT Bonus for Armour so they reach 7 or just 6 (instead of 8) to make them more durable but only in Armour vs Armour battles.

[firepowerjohan]

I was wrong there, AT Bonus is already 7 on 1945 (not 8) so the casualties are in fact ok. They increase by 25% from 1939 to 1945 not 50% as I said before. This being because a AT Bon 7 means Armour will have a surv 6 instead of AT Bon 8 means Armour at Surv 5.

It seems in game, as should be?, that if you line up a 1939 tank vs a 1942 model the 1939 tank will be blown to pieces. Do not neglect research [;)]

[IainMcNeil]

It's something we'll take a look at and see if it's all behaving as expected.

[Stryder]

i was playing the 1943 scenario when my panzers were wiped out by the Russians tanks 11 months into the scenario.. but I was playing with maximum advantage to the allies...