Why Bother?

[madgamer2]

I gather from many of the posts on this forum that there are still many gamers out there that are awaiting the release of the Battleground series.
I think it must be gamers who do not own the games already. I have them all but 2 and they run fine on my XP Pro AND x2 system. It does not appear to me to be worth the money even if the price is cheep because it appears that they will not even try to fix the ONE basic fault in all the games in the series.
Back when the series first came out the AI was barely as good as it got then. The AI in most of the new games that are coming out now have a much better AI. So I have been told that there will be no change in the AI when they are released by Matrix.
Is there some reason for this? I find it hard to believe that they would at least not try to improve it at least. For those who
do not have the series it still makes some sense because the 2 player games can be great fun. I still might buy it so as to have them all in one package and there were 2 I did not buy. but it is still a big let down (SIGH)

Madgamer

[berto]

I have all of the games except for Waterloo, which I somehow lost a few years back.

Still, I will purchase the Matrix Games reissue, because I am delighted to see these classic titles come back to life, and because I want to encourage Matrix to develop them further.

We agree that improving the AI should be a high, if not the highest, priority.

[Zap]

I know of another besides berto who owns the games but wanted to get the series from Matrix. For the same reason you mentioned that is "to have them in a single package". The ease of use is a major reason those who own them already may take the plunge.
For myself, i fit into the category of never having owned(until recently I bought Gettysburg) them and for that reason I'm interested. But being a solitaire player, having a decent AI would be important to me.
Note: I did try the Gettysburg game but I just did not have the desire to immerse(at this point in my life) myself into the time you need to play the game as though it was secound nature to me. It seems I'm playing games that I can move into fairly simply.

Now, if the Matrix edition AI is not improved, will that stop me from buying? I'm not sure, since for most of my purchases I look at the communities feedback to help me gauge my choices. I take a lot of time to deliberate over a purchase.I like this period, so I want something that will give me some challenge. So that means a good AI.

[acwbuff63]

Limitations of A/I,

Until a super smart A/I is developed, I simply don't believe it is possible to develop an A/I that can defeat a human in a large meeting engagement scenario.

On the other hand, it is possible to script an A/I that can be a challenge for smaller attack scenarios. The A/I can be scripted to attack, but defense is much more difficult.

Also, a slightly altered A/I can be developed to give the A/I an advantgage.

But large and complex scenarios will never be developed that can provide a challenge to competent humans. The money is not available.

Again, I fail to understand why some of you solitare players refuse to try PBEM?? Time is not an issue. So why? If you say time IS an issue, explain why. Please!

Finding players is simple. So that can't be the reason.

P.S. If you want to try scns with the A/I in mind, Both HPS Atlanta and Chickamauga has 5-6 scenarios each, specifically designed for the A/I. All scns have A/I capabilities, but these are specially made for A/I play.

BTW, hve you ever tried BG Waterloo's "Ney's Charge?" I found it a difficult win against the A/I.

[General]

Could you please explain what PBEM Is? I've always played against the A/I. Maybe more of us would play if we knew about it. Thanks for any info.

[Zap]

Its an old habit or preference and habits/ prefences are hard to change. I'm sure solitaire players could give you a list of reasons. But I'll leave my answer to that.

Who knows, maybe someday PBEM?

[Zap]

Its playing a game with someone on line. You send your turns via Email. Some look at it as, an answer to those games that present no challenge due to a poor AI.

[madgamer2]

Please forgive an old fart but it is in the long ago bad okd days of computer game called Play By E Mail (PBEM)

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

you very well may be right but there are many games that are "meeting engagements" that have good to passable AI. Indeed there was a great game released by a one man company many years ago that was based on WW 2 navel warfare called "Action Stations" that had a great AI. But it is my love for the Battleground series that perhaps made me hope that the worst fault in the series could have been improved at least. Maybe I should look on the bright side and be happy I can get the 2 games that I missed and all the games in the same package.

Madgamer

[acwbuff63]

General,

I'm glad you asked about PBEM (Play by email). For the BG games and HPS ACW series, it is truly the best way to play a competitive game. I highly encourage you to visit the acwgc.org website for finding players. ACWGC stands for American Civil War Game Club. It's a promotion club. You gain points that equate to rank promotions.

Please visit their website.

http://www.wargame.ch/wc/acw/

I encourage all players that have not used PBEM to learn about it. It's very simple. Some people play may different games at the same time.

And if the ACWGC doesn't suit you, there are others.

I would be glad to help.

[acwbuff63]

General,

BTW, there should be a section in the user manual of either the BG or HPS that describes PBEM in more detail.



Madgamer,

Actually, I was only meaning to describe the A/I for BG and HPS, not other games.

[JoMc67]

Ok guys,
           I know what BG stands for ( Battleground Series ) but what does HPS stand for.
                   Joe

[leescott]

This may sound silly but you can also play solo against yourself using PBEM. While this is not as challenging as against someone you don’t know it is better than against AI. Just start up a bunch of PBEM scenarios, play your turn on one side and then come back maybe after 2 weeks later and play the other side.

For example, I have HPS Waterloo and have about 50 PBEM games running this way, and believe me I can not remember the moves I made while playing the other side. It is also a good way to test out tactics you may use against someone else. Anyway just a thought.

[acwbuff63]

ORIGINAL: JoMc67

Ok guys,
           I know what BG stands for ( Battleground Series ) but what does HPS stand for.
                   Joe

OK, Short history lesson.

BG games were once published by Talonsoft. John Tiller was the programmer for the series. John Tiller left Talonsoft and joined another company called HPS simulations. There he developed and is continuing to develop wargames. Two of his new series, the ACW and Napoleonic series are very similar to the BG series. But different in many ways. With the exception of 3D maps, I think they are much better and continue to be upgraded. Also, many new battles have been introduced by new scenario designers.

I suggest a visit to their website for a look.

www.hpssims.com

[General]

Thanks for the info. I'll check out the website.

[ibeam81]

I'll buy the Battleground bundles for 2 reasons:
 
1) Although I own the originals, it will be convenient to have each of the Battleground series consolidated on a single CD.
 
2) Support Matrix and more importantly show that there is a demand for some upgrades to the Battleground series.
 
I understand that buying these doesn't guarantee any future upgrades, but not doing so virtually condemns the Battleground series to the dustbin of PC gaming history. For the price I'll take a chance. YMMV.

[1NWCG]

PBEM is the best way to play the Battleground and HPS series.  Sometimes I think the A/I in HPS is dumber than that in Battleground. For Napoleonics players, click the links in my signature.

[Erik Rutins]

As a side note, the reissued Battleground titles also work fine on Vista, which the old versions unfortunately do not.

[1925frank]

Thanks for the links.
 
Regarding PBEM play, until July 2007, I never considered playing PBEM because I'm so inept with computers.  Someone was, however, patient enough to show me the steps.  I didn't even know how to zip a file, and I didn't know the distinction between a file and a folder, so if you've already got those things mastered, you're several steps ahead of where I was.  I think the primary hesitancy is the need to learn a new computer skill.  My opponents don't gloat when whipping me.  Just the opposite, they offer sound advice.  Since I played the Battleground Series only against the AI, I lost interest because it wasn't a competitive opponent, and I could only wonder how the game would play head-to-head, and I still wonder.  The nuts and bolts of a great game were there.  It just needed to be more challenging.
 
My PBEM experience is limited to Campaign Series.  With all the phases in the Battleground Series, I'm wondering how well it would play by PBEM.  It seems like it'd be too cumbersome.  Any comments?
 

[acwbuff63]

Congrats on your new PBEM experience.  It truly is the best way to play, either BG or HPS.