Thanks Steve unfortunately no excuse as I knew the flaws in the Land Model....
Taking on LBA with Carrier Air (even supported by B29's) is difficult - but have no fear more cunning plans to follow (I never thought my cunning plans would turn out to have results like blackadders....)
The key in the West is still Mandalay - the key in the east is Tinian I need to break both to move forward well so be it !!!!
Well, if you're Blackadder find a Warrick to blame!! (Do you have any small children at home with PC access?)
Watching this AAR I've changed my previous thoughts about B-29s. Thought they were monsters, but they fall out of the sky just like anything else . . .
Agree with you and others you're committed to T. Time is not on your side to withdraw (if possible), lick wounds and start again. You'd lose rest of year at least.
But as you plan remember that the Japanese are not supermen. Their pilots tire, and lose morale, and their mechanics repair at slow daily rates just like yours.
Is it worth taking your fresh PH troops and striking Marcus now? Diversion of effort for you, but him as well. Probably not, but I don't know exact troop pipeline and status.
And maybe you could re-check your subs.[:)] Perhaps move them in closer to T. Maybe re-look at COs. I can't believe you haven't gotten more intercepts with that volume of metal moving through.
Buck up. You still have a naval hammer, massive relenishment support, and a lot fewer merchies to shepard.
Subs are moving every day at moment. Its straight forward I got it wrong no excuses unfortunately but all the allied spearhead is on Tinian I could probably muster enought to take Marcus but I suspect it doesnt get me much now I think a further landing on Tinian is the only way to go.
The key thing is to try and avoid losing more carriers I need to win this big and fast.
Just not sure how to do it...
Andy
Well my carriers will go back in and surface and bombardment TF's will go in and clear Tinian I guess the only answer is round robin attacks I have 9 BB's on station so I guess the way to do it is to approach with my carrier force - send in the BB TF's 2 on day 1 and 1 on day 2.
Shock attack on day 1 if successful and forts go down repeat on day 2 supported by the 3rd TF.
Rinse and repeat.
I figure there is no point in deliberate attacking as my Armour is such a huge part of the force I need to take advantage of my tank strength which means shock attacks.
Andy
You might want to try setting all your float planes (should have quite a few of them) on 50% recon, and then blast adjoining bases with bombardment. If pauk crams the airfields, well then nuclear bombardments work both ways now, don't they?
It'd be sweet to toast a couple hundred planes on the runway...
Much as I want to go in I decided to play in canny and try and go round the fact is I dont have the strength to go straight in...
I am gutted the shock attack failed and that is the end of my forces on Tinian he is reinforcing faster than I can and I am sure the forts will be rebuilt in short order and he seems to have an unending stream of elite fighters Franks, Georges, Jacks and even Tonies and Tojos how can the allies compete with this....I need to use Marine Corsairs no choice this really stinks but its where we are. (ps in a PDU game USN Sqns should be allowed to upgrade to Corsairs that way you dont need to use marines !!!!)
And yes I know its my own fault Nemo !!!! but it doesnt take away from the fact that the USN is severely underpowered. PDU is just so onesided without control of production.
I will need to withdraw for a day to replenish carrier sqns I have some replacements at Wake I will take em on and then go in.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/29/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Saipan at 63,64
Japanese Ships
MSW W.25
Allied Ships
SS Plaice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 25
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
J2M Jack: 1 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
Runway hits 11
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 36
Ki-21 Sally x 21
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 51
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
36 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 27
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 13
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x P1Y Frances bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 63
B-24J Liberator x 89
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Airbase hits 34
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 119
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30
Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 2
B-25J Mitchell x 38
No Allied losses
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 54
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
14 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Palembang , at 20,55
Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 106
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 56
Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 14
F-5A Lightning x 5
B-24J Liberator x 83
Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed, 29 damaged
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 5 destroyed, 13 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 10 destroyed
B-24J Liberator: 40 destroyed, 3 damaged
Runway hits 3
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64
Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 68
J2M Jack x 33
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 14
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 9
Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 73
Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed, 23 damaged
J2M Jack: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 38 destroyed
Airbase hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 25000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kwajalein , at 79,79
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 13
Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 3
B-24J Liberator x 5
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 destroyed
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
Runway hits 9
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kavieng , at 61,86
Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 39
PB4Y Liberator x 16
B-24J Liberator x 50
Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 85
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Chinese Corps, at 44,32
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
A6M5 Zeke x 19
B6N Jill x 16
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 45
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
71 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
33 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
19 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
16 x B6N Jill bombing at 3000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Chinese Corps, at 44,32
Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 8
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
8 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 43,37
Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 24
J2M Jack x 25
A6M3a Zero x 27
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 34
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 32
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x Ki-43-IIa Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M3a Zero bombing at 2000 feet
24 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
25 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 43,37
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 70
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
36 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
35 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
8 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 43,37
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 93rd Chinese Division, at 29,31
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 8
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-43-IIa Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 110th/B Division, at 33,30
Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 16
No Allied losses
Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 110th/B Division, at 33,30
Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 32
Thunderbolt II x 13
Liberator VI x 48
Mosquito FB.VI x 47
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 8
P-40N Warhawk x 48
P-47C Thunderbolt x 38
B-25J Mitchell x 19
No Allied losses
Japanese ground losses:
497 casualties reported
Guns lost 16
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
10 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
10 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
7 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
10 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
7 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
6 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
8 x Thunderbolt II bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
27 x P-47C Thunderbolt bombing at 2000 feet
15 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
6 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
5 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Thunderbolt II bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
8 x P-47C Thunderbolt bombing at 2000 feet
6 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Mosquito FB.VI bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Thunderbolt II bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x P-47C Thunderbolt bombing at 2000 feet
3 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 2
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 468
F4U-1 Corsair x 22
F4U-1D Corsair x 45
F6F-5N Hellcat x 80
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 2 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 2
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 468
F4U-1 Corsair x 22
F4U-1D Corsair x 45
F6F-5N Hellcat x 80
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 2 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 15
G4M1 Betty x 9
P1Y Frances x 18
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 18
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 14
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 468
F4U-1 Corsair x 21
F4U-1D Corsair x 45
F6F-5N Hellcat x 80
Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 15 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 8 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 18 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 14 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 35
J2M Jack x 85
D4Y Judy x 23
B6N Jill x 11
G4M2 Betty x 8
P1Y Frances x 15
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 56
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 278
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 21
F6F-5N Hellcat x 49
Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 35 destroyed
J2M Jack: 84 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 22 destroyed
B6N Jill: 11 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 8 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 9 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 56 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 60 destroyed, 22 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 4 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 11 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 27
P1Y Frances x 24
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 141
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 195
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
F4U-1D Corsair x 16
F6F-5N Hellcat x 40
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 14 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 18 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 141 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 167 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 5 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 240
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 68
No Japanese losses
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 240
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 68
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 3 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 3
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 6
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 240
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 68
Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 6 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 3
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 238
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 68
Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 7
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 4
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 238
F4U-1 Corsair x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 68
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 4 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6
P1Y Frances x 9
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 2
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 3
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 244
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
F4U-1D Corsair x 27
F6F-5N Hellcat x 62
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 3 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3
P1Y Frances x 6
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 243
F4U-1 Corsair x 13
F4U-1D Corsair x 24
F6F-5N Hellcat x 62
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 3 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,61
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 14
P1Y Frances x 4
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 167
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 19
F6F-5N Hellcat x 45
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Saipan at 63,64
Japanese Ships
AP Yamakuni Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
Allied Ships
SS Plaice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Mandalay
Allied Bombardment attack
Attacking force 169365 troops, 934 guns, 1448 vehicles, Assault Value = 3216
Defending force 88339 troops, 691 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 1869
Japanese ground losses:
993 casualties reported
Guns lost 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 26,40
Allied Bombardment attack
Attacking force 52075 troops, 580 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2670
Defending force 76988 troops, 763 guns, 611 vehicles, Assault Value = 1550
Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tinian
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 258609 troops, 2306 guns, 1173 vehicles, Assault Value = 5320
Defending force 134837 troops, 1026 guns, 154 vehicles, Assault Value = 2778
Allied max assault: 9834 - adjusted assault: 3650
Japanese max defense: 2962 - adjusted defense: 3937
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)
Japanese ground losses:
5043 casualties reported
Guns lost 90
Vehicles lost 13
Allied ground losses:
13401 casualties reported
Guns lost 263
Vehicles lost 203
Pauk is still thinking about his next turn as am I !!!
I am wondering that has to have cost him a LOT of fighters even he surely cannot instantly replace all those losses......
I wonder is this the time to go after KB and try to finish it my strike aircraft did not launch so my bombers (of which I have far more this time) are all locked and cocked I think I could take KB now.....
OK I have not yet seen my forces as I dont have the turn but I think I have several options.
1. Withdraw for 1 day replenish my carriers with the last of my Hellcats and go back in (I have 1 Hellcat Sqn and 1 Replenishment Group on Wake so I can replace about 90 of my losses)
2. Withdraw all the way back to Wake and replenish.
3. Go in hard at Saipan send everything in Carriers the lot - no bombardments go in in surface mode and take the carriers INTO the hex on naval attack crush his defending naval forces one base at a time - I have 3 Surface TF's with 8 BB's between them including 2 RN High exp ships and 2 Iowas using my carriers and BB's in the same hex preserves my CAP over all my ships and doesnot dilute my CAP protecting both TF's
4. 1 & 3 combined
5. 3. But at Tinian.
6. Pursue to the West of the marianas hoping to catch KB
Any thoughts
What you simply need to do is close all 3 airbases there at the same time. Send in all your ships under CV CAP until you lie a hex or two from Tinian. Then use your BB TFs to obliterate the airbases on the 2 non-Tinian islands and your CV strike aircraft to obliterate the airfield on Tinian. With all 3 airbases closed you can finally remove the enemy LBA from the field and begin doing something useful in terms of supporting your forces on Tinian --- and don't forget to LRCAP Tinian to kill the transports.
Basically though anything which distracts you from the goal of closing ALL 3 airfields at the same time is a waste of effort and helps the Japanese. Close all 3 airfields and then use LBA and repeated bombardments to keep them closed while you bring reinforcements and resupply into Tinian. That's the path to victory. Everything else will simply cause you to fail.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Thats difficult Nemo if not impossible I want to do it but he has lots of TF's in those bases protecting them from Bombardment. I count 15+ TF's in each base
My thoughts are to do it one at a time suppress one then move on even Japanese Fighters need to repair and he has lost a lot of aircraft last turn.
My thinking is send in all my TF's perhaps with one on Bombardment against Saipan 4 TF's (2 light 2 heavy) clear out enemy shipping, my carriers protect the surface ships and finish off any ships fleeing the base.
Superforts hit the AF in support with perhaps all the helldivers on AF attack as well.
and then rinse and repeat against Tinian basically working my way down the chain I have 2 CVE's that can ferry out replacement fighters to the carriers - the key is to KEEP them suppressed which is hard but perhaps doable if I hit them one at a time.
I cannot close all three simultaneously so I need to do it one at a time.
Pauk cannot have that many sqns ready to reinforce I have to have shredded a huge proportion between Marianas and SEA.
Hmmmmm although If I am going to do it my way I should begin with Tinian to stop forts building I wish I hadnot shock attacked now I should have waited until I was ready to bombard in a turn or two.
I think you are correct Nemo I may not be able to close all three at once but I should be able to close two of the three and then when the Missisipi and Alabama join the fleet lifting my BB count to 10 I will have more flexibility
I wonder when Wisconsin and Missouri arrive it cannot be long....
Andy
I have taken the Marianas in one game only and I landed about 100,000 men on Tinian and the same on Saipan - Tinian was an ok fight against 40,000 Japanese (although I lost almost every MSW I had in that fight) and it was a hard fight on Saipan where 40,000 Japanese wrecked my army, my army was gutted by the end of it its a little crazy but it all comes down to a single AF - just one AF is the difference bettween victory and defeat a single level 1 AF with 48 Thuds or Corsairs.......
HI Andy,
The issue with this focus on LBA though is what about KB? If you're in position around Mariana's he knows where you are and can mass planes on 1-2 bases (that are open) and send in KB..............
just one AF is the difference bettween victory and defeat a single level 1 AF with 48 Thuds or Corsairs.......
which is as wrong as the result you have to face now IMO...[8|] Which is wrong because you take such a beating - at the moment it looks to me like you are taking a beating, not the Japanese (while they still lose more material). Once again, the first step to a somewhat "normal" game would be to have stacking limits. This goes for planes, troops and also carriers in one hex.
I offered stacking limits on carriers Pauk said no.
And stacking limits on troops would only be feasible if atolls and islands were limited to lvl 3 forts.
Andy
I offered stacking limits on carriers Pauk said no.
And stacking limits on troops would only be feasible if atolls and islands were limited to lvl 3 forts.
Andy
I know you did, which is very honourable as the Allied are the one who would "suffer" from such a rule. The stacking limit for troops is something that is very hard to follow with a house rule as this would make it too easy to just calculate how many troops you would need to take a target quick and easily. I was never able to implement a hr about troop stackings though I always have stacking limits on planes.
Oh and I am taking the beating I do not for a second not realise that Pauk has me beat I gambled on taking the Marianas assuming that 17 Divs of inf and 22 Armoured Regts would take a single base and have failed.
Pauk has done well but I should never have agreed not to use Hellcats on CVE's or agreed not to use marine Corsairs in a PDU game where the Japanese are using Ground Attack pilot training.
Had I not done so I would probably not have had to withdraw and Pauk would not be able to ship in reinforcements or supply and it would have been a very different game I would have ground the forts down supported by massed air strikes - the fact is HR's that work in a non PDU game don't work in a PDU one and once again I forgot that HR's are a negotiation that are almost as important as the game itself.
But also I have played shit and Pauk has played well his use of LRCAP is impressive as is the dedication to keep fighter pilot quality high - my refusal to ground attack train also hamstrings me
The issue with this focus on LBA though is what about KB? If you're in position around Mariana's he knows where you are and can mass planes on 1-2 bases (that are open) and send in KB..............
Yup its an issue which is why I need to neutralise one AF at a time to keep enough of my strike aircraft on naval attack to keep him honest - its tough but the only way to go.
KB isnt actually that much of a threat unless my fighter strength drops sub 200 A6 series fighters alone are not up to it.
Actually I am getting slightly more optimistic about my chances.
If I can neutralise one island then B29's can keep it suppressed.
Its not easy to supress the others but it can be done and all I need is to land another 2000 AV and some supplies and not lose a carrier battle and I will be ok.....
Andy, quick response:
1. He may have 15 TF there BUT:
a) they aren't all surface combat TFs and
b) even if they were you HAVE to write down those surface combat TFs somehow and if you don't kill them at Tinian you are just going to have to face them at the next landing site and kill them there. Accept your losses now in return for the increased freedom of action you will gain in the present and future.
2. Chances of this being succesful increase exponentially if on Day 1 you can close 2 airfields ( the two which aren't Tinian)... then take out Tinian on Day 2 with your bombardment fleet and use your own LBA to keep the Day 1 targets suppressed.
Still if push comes to shove just pick ONE of the two non-Tinian bases and hit it with all your BB TFs and your carrier strike planes. Then On Day 2 hit that base with the B-29s while moving your BBs and CVs to the 2nd non-Tinian base and suppress it to hell and back.
Day 3 move your BBs and CVs to Tinian and split the B-29s etc between the first two bases.
After that shuttling your BB bombardment fleets back to Wake etc for resupply and then back to bombard PLUS your carrier strike groups PLUS your B-29s should keep the enemy LBA suppressed enough that you can bring in the troops and supply you need.
It all comes down to suppressing 3 airfields. Just fight defensively vs KB, it doesn't have the fighters to take you on. Just defend against it sprinting in on a suicide mission and you'll be fine. You do, however, have to narrow your focus down to just suppressing those 3 fields. You are doing too much with too little right now and you need to focus on what's essential - preventing LBA from interfering with your CVs and resupply.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
