Upgrading Chitose - CVL ... Hyuga etc

[Cavalry Corp]

These guys have been in Kure nearly all of Dec 42 now and still not gone for upgrading

PBEM latest version

Any advice

Michael

[DuckofTindalos]

Well, two things:

- They don't become eligible for upgrade until AFTER 12/31/42.

AND

- They ONLY upgrade in Osaka.

Section 13.2.3 in the manual.

[Cavalry Corp]

oh got the date wrong

Actually I meant Osaka - got that wrong as well

Do they use ship building points ?

[DuckofTindalos]

Yes. They hop back into the reinforcement queue; you're basically getting new ships.

[tsimmonds]

Come 1/1/43, please be sure to bump this thread with the following information:

What are the arrival dates for each of the ships?
How much does each one cost per day in SBPs?
What (if any) air groups are shown with each ship?

I have seen varying answers to these QQ, and it would be nice to get some good answers all in one place.

Thanks!

[Mike Solli]

I have both in the que.  I'll look up the info tonight when I go home.  I know each CVL costs 40 points per day and they do have air groups but can't remember what they are. 

[nobunaga]

Hi,

Chitose/Chiyoda:
Delay:330 days, must be disbanded in Osaka on the last(!) day of a month, will appear in building queue on the first day of the following month then (earliest possible conversion date: 31/12/42)

normal building cost: 40/day; 330*40=13200 points, 330 days building time
accelerated construction: 120/day; (330/2)*(40*3)=19800 points, 165 days building time

both dump their original airgroups in osaka upon entering the queue (sp?),
they return each with a A6M5 and B6N equipped airgroup (21 Zekes and 9 Jills operational), all airgroups are carrier capable daitais not carrier trained, attached to the Home Defense Force, their max size is 27, they arrive without any pilots (at least in my game vs AI, might be a bug and vary from patch to patch)

Ise/Hyuga
Delay: 180 days, same procedure as with Chitose&Chiyoda, not sure about the earliest possible conversion date tho, i guess its 30/4/43)

normal building cost: 105/day; 180*105=18900 points, 180 days building time
accelerated construction: 315/day; (180/2)*(105*3)=28350 points, 90 days building time

they do NOT auto-dump their airgroups in osaka, all their airgroups have their max size changed to 11 (scen 15) [edit: just tested scenario 12, got 12 Rufes and 9 Jakes there on each BBCV, seems to vary with scenario],
Hyuga-1 Chutai and Ise-1 Chutai have their planes changed to A6M2-N Rufe with a predefined upgrade path back to Jakes.

[nobunaga]

Just did some more testing on Chiyoda/Chitose Airgroups:

they recieve their airgroups from the airgroup reinforcement queue:

#470 F1/653rd Daitai (Zeke) will initially arrive at Kagoshima will be placed on Chitose
#471 A1/653rd Daitai (Jill) ----------------------------- Osaka ------------------------ Chitose
#472 F2/653rd Daitai (Zeke) -------------------------- Hiroshima -------------------- Chiyoda
#473 A2/653rd Daitai (Jill) ----------------------------- Hiroshima -------------------- Chiyoda
all initially scheduled to arrive on 15/1/44, attached to Home Defense Force

which means you do not "loose" any airgroup by not converting them, which makes these conversions actually less useful.

[Cavalry Corp]

And the AA of these BB is over 1000 ?

M

[nobunaga]

Ise11/43 AA: 921, upgrades to Ise6/44 AA: 1344 [X(]

actually the best AA rating of any japanese ship until mid44.

They also got sorties (198 max), enabling their airgroups to perform naval attacks (for whatever the Jake´s 60kg bombs are worth)

[RUPD3658]

I learned a while back that they will only convert on the 1st of the month

[tsimmonds]

bump for Halsey[;)]

[Q-Ball]

Despite the high AA, seems like the BB conversion isn't worth having them out of service so long. Agree?

Is the consensus:

Chitose/Chiyoda: Do it

BB's: Don't

?

[String]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Despite the high AA, seems like the BB conversion isn't worth having them out of service so long. Agree?

Is the consensus:

Chitose/Chiyoda: Do it

BB's: Don't

?

In CHS, where you can produce the Seiran, it is useful to convert those BB's in my opinion.

[Miller]

Might as well upgrade them for the extra AA/search plane capacity. I doubt the surface combat routine would reduce their performance because they have 8 instead of 12 14" guns.....

[John 3rd]

Getting those CVLs is HUGE in 1943!  If one has expanded the Naval Production of Shipyards, one can tie the arrival of the 2 CVL with Taiho and you have added nearly 150 planes to your air arm.  If you haven't lost alot of your Japanese CVs, you will still maintain parity with the American Fleet through late-1943.

The BB conversions I am less sanquine about.  The AA is most important and still having 8 14" rifles is quite punch.  Seaplanes are fairly useless but ANYTHING is better then nothing...

[tsimmonds]

Chitose and Chiyoda are very useful units as CS. While they are worth more as CVL, their roles are completely different than what they were as CS.

Ise/Hyuga have limited utility as BB. However as BB/CVX, they could step into the role that Chitose and Chiyoda played, that of fleet naval search, ASW patrol, AAA platform, and bomb magnet.

Except for having slightly lower speed, they are as good or better at all these than Chi/Chi were. Use the FP from the ex-CS on the BB/CVX.

[John 3rd]

Agree with those points. 

I tend to withdraw Chitose and Chiyoda within several weeks of DEI offensive and return them to Osaka for the duration of 1942.  I simply don't want to risk them when I know what I can get.

One of the issues I have with this game is that I cannot effectively convert Nisshin to a CVL as well.  There is another CS that was scheduled for conversion but I cannot remember which it was.  I WISH those could be pulled back and set in line with Chitose/Chiyoda.  FOUR CVL in early-mid 1943 would be HUGE from a Japanese point-of-view.

[Q-Ball]

That raises a question on Nisshin and Mizuho.

Were they built to be conversion-capable, like Chiyoda/Chitose? Nisshin sank in mid '43, so the Japanese didn't begin a conversion before she went down. What I don't know is COULD they have? Not being a naval architect, my understanding is that the hull spaces had to be designed at the outset with that conversion in mind for it to work properly (as it did for Chiyoda/Chitose, and the Zuihos). Anyone know?

I have my doubts that Mizuho was "conversion capable". If she was built to convert, you think they would have built her with a higher speed.

[John 3rd]

Good points.  I think Nisshin was to be converted but got sunk before it could happen.  Mizuho is VERY slow.  You are probably right there.

Would STILL like the option for Nisshin...