Why Bother?

[John 3rd]

I cannot wait for these games to come out!  I live off of War in the Pacific but will devote time to a renewed Battleground Series the MOMENT--if it EVER happens--it is released...

PBEM people BEWARE!  I'll be looking for some sad McClellanesqe goat for old Bobby Lee----uhhhh I mean John R.----to take care of!

[1NWCG]

All phases PBEM isn't too bad. You just find an opponent that you both send files at the same rate and take into account real life issues. Turn around is usually the longest on a movement phase.
 
But essentially, player 1 does movements, sends it to player 2 for defensive and then player 1 gets it for the other 2-3 phases (ACW or Napoleonic) then it goes to player 2 for their movement. Not too bad as people may make it seem.
 
Also PBEM is not hard to teach, as 1925frank pointed out basically the major parts of it.

[1925frank]

In the event I buy the Battleground Series (both Civil War and Napoleonics), I'd like to give PBEM a test drive.
 
There's discussion of this on other threads, but skirmishers are played differently in the Napoleonic games than in the Civil War games (and, within the Civil War games, I think they may even be nonexistent until the Chickamauga game, if I can remember ten years back).  I thought the Napoleonic version lent itself to abuse, at least against the AI.   I'd send my skirmishers against enemey aritllery in swarms and surround the artillery.  The other threads show there are pro and cons to both systems.  Against the AI, I preferred the Chickamauga version, but in head-to-head, a human player would probably eliminate the potential for abuses.  Movement without disruption in the Napoleonic games was also more difficult.  Consequently, I woud think reconaissance, anticipation, and planning ahead seemed to play a far more significant role in the Napoleonic games.   For those people who haven't played them, they are similar, but there are differences.  Cavalry in the Napoleonic games can play a far more prominent role and is far more diversified.  I'm sure there are others out there who are far more familiar with the games than I am, so if I've got this wrong, feel free to correct me. 

[Rhetor]

Actually, skirmishers in the way they work in Napoleonic BGs have a very unhistorical side-effect. Namely, a 25-men strong, disorganized skirmisher unit can stop cold a 2000-strong infantry stack. How on Earth do they do that?

Playing Battlegrounds requires a lot of house rules, in order to make them more real.

I have proposed here some tweaks to the way skirmishers work in Napoleonic BGs. However, I am pretty sure that these changes would not be implemented.

[1925frank]

Other than making the games compatible with contemporary computers, my understanding is Matrix is not going to modify the games.
 
If it's not too much trouble, could you state the tweaks you've proposed.  I'd be interested.  Also, what kind of house rules have you found work best?
 
Does anyone know if the games will have game editors so we could put together small scenarios?

[Adraeth]

I think it is good to refresh those real masterpieces of a neglected period... for too much wargaming for pc has seen WW2 conflicts, the Tillers' Battleground series is a piece of history for napoleonic period..
 
glad to see those games!!

[1925frank]

I played the Battleground Series, but I'm not really in a position to compare it with other games.
 
Despite its age, do ya'll (I'm from Texas -- that's "you" in the plural) think it's one of the better ones?
 
I've played Crown of Glory on the stategic level but not on the tactical lever.  I always do the quick battles. 

[Adraeth]

In my opinion the tactical battles of Crown of Glory are sometimes too easy, anyway tillers' games are at a grand tactical level so a comparison is difficult to be made.
 
Anyway i think it is a good idea to have old games revival to learn or discuss about them, for istance, here in italy was impossible to find them and now i will be able to have them "via" Matrix.

[Rhetor]

ORIGINAL: 1925frank
If it's not too much trouble, could you state the tweaks you've proposed. I'd be interested. Also, what kind of house rules have you found work best?

Quick list. Bear in mind, that some of these are applicable only to Napoleonic BGs:

1. Artillery should get 1 fatigue point for each salvo fired
2. Artillery batteries should have limited ammo, resupplied from wagons
3. Ammo levels should be set, not left to pure chance. EG. 9 volleys max for each infantry unit.
4. Skirmishers should not be able to stop the movement of formed infantry.
5. Skirmishers should either work as a screen of formed, or as a detached company. There are way too many small skirmisher companies for the player to control.
6. Routed units should have absolutely no chance for winning in melee.

As far as house rules are concerned, these were mostly connected with skirmishers - that a light company should stay near its parent battalion, save when garrisoning buildings, and that a skirmisher unit cannot be left in enemy zone of control in open terrain - unless this hex is also in zone of control of a friendly formed battalion.

EDIT: yet another house rule regarding artillery - the artillery ammo levels should be keep way lower than in the original scenarios, in order to prevent a situation, when a battery unlimbered in a favourable spot keeps firing in both offensive and defensive fire phase, which is totally unhistorical. For the same reasons, this house rule included an option, that artillery could fire in defensive fire phase only when in cannister range, ie. about 6 hexes.
This house rule was proposed on the site on which the "Battlefield Eylau Project" first appeared. That was many years ago, and this excellent site has long dissappeared...


Look through my posts in this subforum. There might have been more suggestions, and definitely I have given detailed explanations to all of my suggestions. Time has passed since I first got interested in the Matrix release of Battlegrounds.

Can't wait to see some new maps.

[1NWCG]

Crown of Glory was nice, but had issues and I play with it occasionally but not often.
 
But yes house rules are needed for BG Napoleonic's where the skirmishers are unwieldy sometimes.  Often as cited already only so many hexes away from parent units. Cannot surround and force a ZOC kill. Cannot go into the rear of enemy forces, stuff like that. Basic principles need to be followed and understood by both sides when taking up a game. Pretty much all of the Clubs have rules and guides for people to follow.