OT New Eastern Front Game - Whole war Divisional level , 10 mile hexes - weekly turns

[DeadInThrench]

Silvanski......

I had been considering getting TOAW3 and based on your comments and others, decided to go for it and ordered it late last week.

Then I came back here to look again at your attachment and... almost fell over when I realized that it was east front at the REGIMENTAL level <g>. Uh.... yeah, I guess 4000 units sez it all.

Also... people were talking FITE and I came to realize that stood for Fire in the East.... but at first I thought they were referring to the old GDW monster board game on the Eastern Front (yeah... have that one burried away somewhere... and did a search on the INet and apparently there was a way to play GDW FITE PBEM), but finally game to realize you all were talking about a TOAW3 scenario.... as you were with Drang Nach Osten (also the name for a GDW game that was the precurser to GDW FITE).

So.... guess these two games live on.... except now as TOAW3 scenarios (along with the various other eastern front scenarios in TOAW3).

Also.... want to thank you hear for your conversion procedure for COW scenarios so they could run in TOAW3. I DLed two COW scenarios for conflicts that I don't believe I could find anywhere else... the Austria-Prussian War of 1868 and the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.... and they are COW scenarios which would not work in TOAW3... without the conversion.

Uh... a major consideration here for me.... with a LOT of games.... gets to be a problem in going from one game to another and getting up to speed or back up to speed with this game system or that. With TOAW3.... my feel is you can go a long way without having to deal with that.

Whatever.... my plan is to try the German invasion of Norway first.... I had an old GDW game on this also and.... was great.... different areas of conflict almost completely separated from each other... and not that big overall.

DiT

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench

Silvanski......

I had been considering getting TOAW3 and based on your comments and others, decided to go for it and ordered it late last week.

Nice, I'm sure you'll like it.

However one thing TOAw can't what good lold WiR can is the ability to toggle Divisions/Korps between HQ's

[Cavalry Corp]

Thats real bad

making up the corps which should be the core unit in any game of this scale is important and can make the game more flexibles and interesting - one to add to my notes above

In FITE then the corps are fixed and Army HQ and above have no purpose at all except to dash through a line and surround units - silly

M

[DeadInThrench]

cavalry...

I don't know if you are aware of this but... before there was WiR: Matrix Edition... there was WiR (published by Grigsby I think)... and before that.... there was Second Front, published by SSI... and before that (!).... WiR (published by Grigsby I believe also).

This is all the same game just iterations on it. So, the current Matrix edition is the 4th iteration.

Also, after Grigsby did Second Front for SSI... he THEN did a game called Western Front, which was essentially the same system except used in western Europe for WW2 starting with the Americans at the Casino line... to the end of the war.

For me..... I probably got my money's worth out of Western Front more than any game I every had. Was easier to get into with the Italian front to start and then you could move from there to the D-Day campaign and from there to the entire campaign.

In any case.... we are talking 4th iteration on WiR and... sheesh... would be very hard to get a came up to this level from the ground up.

On the other hand... WiR... is in serious need of an upgrade.... mainly the graphics but also some things with the game system, etc. And then there is Western Front not currently available and then the possibility of a similar Western Front except this time covering the start of the war up to the Italian campaign... and also PacWar is weekly turns and you could thus potentially integrate all of them into one corps level, weekly turn game of the entire war.

Yeah... I made this point before but... the point here.... is if you are interested in investing in something like this... talk to 2x3 or Matrix and you might just be able to work out some agreement... funding a programmer to get at such a project or whatever... and IMO this would potentially be successful much moreso than trying to get an eastern front game off the ground from srcatch.

DiT

P.S. Uh... one caveat here..... unless I am mistaken Matrix makes agreements with programmers where what they get is a function of how well the game sells... and one can respect this from a business perspective but... in some cases..... the programmer's simply don't get the job done (and aren't liable in any sense). If you take a look at the Empire's in Arms project.... sheesh... been almost ready to go for like 3 years... and turns out it is the programmer's 5th priority as far as his job list.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: cavalry
In FITE then the corps are fixed and Army HQ and above have no purpose at all except to dash through a line and surround units - silly

HQ's in TOAW (and therefor) FitE serve supply and command functions.
They are generally weak when it comes to combat and have to be protected with AA ... when a HQ suffers damage it can affect the effectiveness of its formation...

To dash through lines and surround units you use your armoured and motorized units

[Cavalry Corp]

OK thanks for that . So XXXX level HQ and above still have a purpose in FITE as they seemed to have no attached units ??
Michael

[Cavalry Corp]

Yes once I had thatt Western front game . I know a lot of people like WIR and it must be a good game thats why its been around a long time -

Michael

[DeadInThrench]

Oh yeah... one other thing..... the first step in upgrading WiR would be converting it to run under WIN32 (2000, XP, Vista) and.... I've done that myself (from DOS to WIN3.1 and from there to WIN32... and also from IBM OS/2 to WIN32) and... as long as the code is in C (it probably is in Pascal... which I have done also but not recently)... have been thinking of offerring to do it for Matrix.... for FREE <g>.... just for the sake of the game. But.... I really don't have that much time on my hands and.... no, I am not doing the artwork <g> and that is what is needed besides the programming.

Whatever,

DiT

[DeadInThrench]

Hmmmm... yeah... the OTHER thing... is, given WiR running under DosBox.... there really is not THAT much of a need to upgrade it.... UNLESS..... it was the first step in a larger upgrade. Upgrading the combat resolution system..... adding all the little things that have come up over the years..... maybe putting the corps and army numbers on the counters in the higher resolution.... etc.

If the plan was there to go for a major upgrade then... yes... the first step would be to convert the game to run under WIN32.

DiT

[DeadInThrench]

Silvanski....

Hmmm... have been loathe to make any comments on TOAW3 <g>... simply because I don't even have the game yet but.... looking at the attachment you posted.... I don't see anyplace on the counters where the higher level unit is listed... and nothing on the HQs saying what unit they are the HQ of.

So.... must be a bit of a challange in knowing what units go with what HQ.

Recently.... I have been playing the old SSI game Sons of Liberty... Saratoga scenario... simply because I can't seem to find another game that is as good as a game for this subject as SOL (yeah, I was out of wargaming from around '92 to '06... and IMO the graphics in the games have obviously improved but... seems like more often than not... the game systems... have digressed).... anyways.... what they do in SOL..... if you enter the T command then all units in the same org get highlighted. Not as good as if they all had the unit org number on them..... but at least there is something.

So... hopefully, TOAW3 has something like this.

In any case... one improvement for WiR (if things ever go that route) would be to put the parent army number on each of the corps counters.... and the army group number, as well as it's own army number, on each of the army HOs... so you can see the org structure at a glance.

DiT

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

OK thanks for that . So XXXX level HQ and above still have a purpose in FITE as they seemed to have no attached units ??
Michael

Usually a "formation" consists of a HQ and several units... size depends on the scenario designer ...

Sorry I somewhat hijacked this thread... I suggest you check out the TOAWIII forum here on Matrix

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench

Silvanski....

Hmmm... have been loathe to make any comments on TOAW3 <g>... simply because I don't even have the game yet but.... looking at the attachment you posted.... I don't see anyplace on the counters where the higher level unit is listed... and nothing on the HQs saying what unit they are the HQ of.

So.... must be a bit of a challange in knowing what units go with what HQ.

Not at all...
... when you click on a unit, that unit and all other units of that formation will be highlighted on the map... some scenario designers opt to give units belonging to a corps army or division the same color pattern for ease of play... furthermore you can call up a formation screen ..

[Big Bang]

the game mechanics used in the V4V series (market garden, velikiye luki, stalingrad, Gold Juno Sword and america invades) are very nice, they used a "plot together and let the pc run the execution "type of game. I think it is possible to scale up the size without any problem, it just lacked a production aspect as it was limited to a certain battle.
The tactical/operational gameplay was superior to anything that i have seen so far.